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	<title>Comments on: Patrick Holford v. Dr. Sarah Jarvis &#8211; the Video</title>
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	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: LeeT</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-2/#comment-14613</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeeT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 21:45:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14613</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[GB

I have said this on the blog before, but I&#039;ll repeat just for you.

Back in October I went along to a Patrick Holford seminar. There was no question and answer session so I went up to the front to ask the great man himself what he was doing in the United States after graduating from the University of York.

His reply was &quot;studying nutrition.&quot;  He went on to say that was what he has been doing for the last thirty years.  What he meant by that I don&#039;t know.

What do you think he was doing with Hoffer?  Why do you think he is so reluctant to clarify what he was up to?  What exactly has he got to hide?

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: let us recall that in &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science-Ben-Goldacre/dp/000728487X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1233871757&amp;sr=8-2&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Bad Science&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt; Ben Goldacre revealed that straight after university, Patrick Holford was working as a vitamin pill salesman for &lt;i&gt;Higher Nature&lt;/i&gt;. Leaving aside the mistake about the dates of his study there was absolutely no time for going out to the US etc and studying for the implied period of time. Plus, neither Pfeiffer nor Hoffer were working in an institution could offer a course of study, a qualification or any form of accreditation.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>GB</p>
<p>I have said this on the blog before, but I&#8217;ll repeat just for you.</p>
<p>Back in October I went along to a Patrick Holford seminar. There was no question and answer session so I went up to the front to ask the great man himself what he was doing in the United States after graduating from the University of York.</p>
<p>His reply was &#8220;studying nutrition.&#8221;  He went on to say that was what he has been doing for the last thirty years.  What he meant by that I don&#8217;t know.</p>
<p>What do you think he was doing with Hoffer?  Why do you think he is so reluctant to clarify what he was up to?  What exactly has he got to hide?</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: let us recall that in <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bad-Science-Ben-Goldacre/dp/000728487X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&amp;s=books&amp;qid=1233871757&amp;sr=8-2" rel="nofollow"><i>Bad Science</i></a> Ben Goldacre revealed that straight after university, Patrick Holford was working as a vitamin pill salesman for <i>Higher Nature</i>. Leaving aside the mistake about the dates of his study there was absolutely no time for going out to the US etc and studying for the implied period of time. Plus, neither Pfeiffer nor Hoffer were working in an institution could offer a course of study, a qualification or any form of accreditation.</b></p>
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		<title>By: GB</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-2/#comment-14605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14605</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well Abram Hoffer wrote a glowing forward to Holford&#039;s recent book in which he describes how Holford has carried forward the work of orthomolecular psychiatry. So I have no reason to believe that his claims of having studied under both him and Pfeiffer are false.

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: did Hoffer reproduce the Holford CV in which he gave dates during which the course he claims to have studied at that time didn&#039;t even exist?

Fascinating where you put your trust for absolutely no good reason and yet show no interest in correcting your errors when you are given pointers to facts that you can check for yourself but choose not to - however, entirely your business.

Answered here - so, anything else on this topic goes to off-topic as it is off-topic for this post.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Abram Hoffer wrote a glowing forward to Holford&#8217;s recent book in which he describes how Holford has carried forward the work of orthomolecular psychiatry. So I have no reason to believe that his claims of having studied under both him and Pfeiffer are false.</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: did Hoffer reproduce the Holford CV in which he gave dates during which the course he claims to have studied at that time didn&#8217;t even exist?</p>
<p>Fascinating where you put your trust for absolutely no good reason and yet show no interest in correcting your errors when you are given pointers to facts that you can check for yourself but choose not to &#8211; however, entirely your business.</p>
<p>Answered here &#8211; so, anything else on this topic goes to off-topic as it is off-topic for this post.</b></p>
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		<title>By: GB</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-2/#comment-14604</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[GB]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 15:52:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14604</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You seem to have ommited to include a link to the comment you moved off topic. Can I please request that you correct this oversight? Thanks
&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: do it yourself if you seriously believe that your comments merit it and, yet again, not really relevant. Moving and linking is a courtesy that you have yet to merit.

You are going into pre-moderation until you behave more responsibly.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You seem to have ommited to include a link to the comment you moved off topic. Can I please request that you correct this oversight? Thanks<br />
<b>Admin edit: do it yourself if you seriously believe that your comments merit it and, yet again, not really relevant. Moving and linking is a courtesy that you have yet to merit.</p>
<p>You are going into pre-moderation until you behave more responsibly.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Levi</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14581</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Levi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 08:22:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14581</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: off-topic for this post - &lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/off-topic/#comment-14584&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;moved&lt;/a&gt; to keep it with Gregg Billingsley.

We refer you to the &lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/about/comments-policy/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;comments policy&lt;/a&gt;. 

This is a blog about Patrick Holford and his brand of nutritionism - not other people whom your affect to admire.

Make your other comments at least on-topic for this blog. Read the comments policy.&lt;/b&gt;
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Admin edit: off-topic for this post &#8211; <a href="http://holfordwatch.info/off-topic/#comment-14584" rel="nofollow">moved</a> to keep it with Gregg Billingsley.</p>
<p>We refer you to the <a href="http://holfordwatch.info/about/comments-policy/" rel="nofollow">comments policy</a>. </p>
<p>This is a blog about Patrick Holford and his brand of nutritionism &#8211; not other people whom your affect to admire.</p>
<p>Make your other comments at least on-topic for this blog. Read the comments policy.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Billingsley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14575</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregg Billingsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 23:06:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14575</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: moved to &lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/off-topic/#comment-14586&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;off-topic&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><b>Admin edit: moved to <a href="http://holfordwatch.info/off-topic/#comment-14586" rel="nofollow">off-topic</a>.</b></p>
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		<title>By: draust</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14574</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[draust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 20:45:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14574</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Re. Gregg&#039;s rather trusting (or utterly misleading, if you prefer) remarks about Patrick  and his &quot;mentors&quot; Carl Pfeiffer and Abram Hoffer, I wrote about these gents in my first ever full-length post on &lt;a href=&quot;http://draust.wordpress.com/2007/09/23/patrick-holford%E2%80%99s-mentors-and-inspirations-%E2%80%93-but-who-are-they-exactly/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Patrick Holford&#039;s Mentors and Inspirations - but who are they exactly?&quot;&lt;/a&gt;.  Short version: both Hoffer and Pfeiffer were long out of the scientific mainstream into fruitcake wacky-private-nutrition-clinic territory by the time Patrick hooked up with them. And he definitely did not&quot;study&quot; with them for &quot;several years&quot; -  more likely he visited their private therapy centres briefly - days? weeks?  months? - in the late 70s.

 As for Linus Pauling&#039;s late career obsession with implausible theories about Vitamin C...  I think what I said in the comment &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/06/hivaids_denial_featured_in_sci.php#comment-481136&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&lt;/a&gt;  is closer to the view of most scientists, both on him, and on other eminent scientists that made idiots of themselves talking about stuff they knew nothing about.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re. Gregg&#8217;s rather trusting (or utterly misleading, if you prefer) remarks about Patrick  and his &#8220;mentors&#8221; Carl Pfeiffer and Abram Hoffer, I wrote about these gents in my first ever full-length post on <a href="http://draust.wordpress.com/2007/09/23/patrick-holford%E2%80%99s-mentors-and-inspirations-%E2%80%93-but-who-are-they-exactly/" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Patrick Holford&#8217;s Mentors and Inspirations &#8211; but who are they exactly?&#8221;</a>.  Short version: both Hoffer and Pfeiffer were long out of the scientific mainstream into fruitcake wacky-private-nutrition-clinic territory by the time Patrick hooked up with them. And he definitely did not&#8221;study&#8221; with them for &#8220;several years&#8221; &#8211;  more likely he visited their private therapy centres briefly &#8211; days? weeks?  months? &#8211; in the late 70s.</p>
<p> As for Linus Pauling&#8217;s late career obsession with implausible theories about Vitamin C&#8230;  I think what I said in the comment <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/aetiology/2007/06/hivaids_denial_featured_in_sci.php#comment-481136" rel="nofollow">here</a>  is closer to the view of most scientists, both on him, and on other eminent scientists that made idiots of themselves talking about stuff they knew nothing about.</p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Billingsley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14572</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregg Billingsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:34:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14572</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The film, by the way, is called &#039;Masks of Madness.&#039; There are clips on YouTube and EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH THIS FILM.

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: you completely overestimate your personal credibility and ability to influence if you think that making a film recommendation is meaningful after the number of errors you have made watching a short video clip and subsequently in your comments.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The film, by the way, is called &#8216;Masks of Madness.&#8217; There are clips on YouTube and EVERYONE SHOULD WATCH THIS FILM.</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: you completely overestimate your personal credibility and ability to influence if you think that making a film recommendation is meaningful after the number of errors you have made watching a short video clip and subsequently in your comments.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Billingsley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14571</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregg Billingsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 19:29:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14571</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I understood the intentions of Dr Jarvis. However in her rush to discredit Holford she insulted the patient and the public for whom it may be news that diabetes 2 can be reversed by diet and lifestyle. I didn’t notice that Holford tried to pass it off as original, although his particular meal plan may be, (it certainly seemed to have a high compliance factor; low compliance being ONE reason why doctors don’t tend to stress the importance of nutrition.) but if doctors like Dr. Jarvis don’t take the initiative to inform the public of the emerging high significance of nutrition in disease then it’s going to SEEM original to the public.

I haven’t read through the blog or the links. I was previously aware of Patrick Holford through his appearance in a film made by the actress Margot Kidder about her curing bipolar disorder through orthomolecular medicine. Patrick Holford studied under Carl Pfeiffer and Abram Hoffer for many years in the US. They were the first doctors to prove the link between nutrition and mental illness. Hoffer, of course, was a colleague of double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling (much derided for many years over his advocacy of vitamin C) It was Linus Pauling who was Founding Patron of Holford’s original Institute for Optimum Nutrition. These are hardly the credentials of someone who is merely a ‘pundit with a gift for publicity.’

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: you do seem to visit blogs, make assertions, receive information and recommendations for reading which you refuse to take and then carry on commenting from ignorance.
Dr Jarvis is very active in promoting healthful eating - you should check out some of her committee memberships and books. In the interview that you seemed to have watched through blinkers and with ear defenders, she mentions the Portfolio Diet and the Mediterranean Diet and recommends both for appropriate patients.
As for the other points, as Dr Aust points out and as is covered in some detail on this blog, your are in error about Linus Pauling and his early relationship with Patrick Holford and the ION. And, as covered on this blog, there was &lt;i&gt;never&lt;/i&gt; any years of study with either Pfeiffer or Hoffer.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I understood the intentions of Dr Jarvis. However in her rush to discredit Holford she insulted the patient and the public for whom it may be news that diabetes 2 can be reversed by diet and lifestyle. I didn’t notice that Holford tried to pass it off as original, although his particular meal plan may be, (it certainly seemed to have a high compliance factor; low compliance being ONE reason why doctors don’t tend to stress the importance of nutrition.) but if doctors like Dr. Jarvis don’t take the initiative to inform the public of the emerging high significance of nutrition in disease then it’s going to SEEM original to the public.</p>
<p>I haven’t read through the blog or the links. I was previously aware of Patrick Holford through his appearance in a film made by the actress Margot Kidder about her curing bipolar disorder through orthomolecular medicine. Patrick Holford studied under Carl Pfeiffer and Abram Hoffer for many years in the US. They were the first doctors to prove the link between nutrition and mental illness. Hoffer, of course, was a colleague of double Nobel Prize winner Linus Pauling (much derided for many years over his advocacy of vitamin C) It was Linus Pauling who was Founding Patron of Holford’s original Institute for Optimum Nutrition. These are hardly the credentials of someone who is merely a ‘pundit with a gift for publicity.’</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: you do seem to visit blogs, make assertions, receive information and recommendations for reading which you refuse to take and then carry on commenting from ignorance.<br />
Dr Jarvis is very active in promoting healthful eating &#8211; you should check out some of her committee memberships and books. In the interview that you seemed to have watched through blinkers and with ear defenders, she mentions the Portfolio Diet and the Mediterranean Diet and recommends both for appropriate patients.<br />
As for the other points, as Dr Aust points out and as is covered in some detail on this blog, your are in error about Linus Pauling and his early relationship with Patrick Holford and the ION. And, as covered on this blog, there was <i>never</i> any years of study with either Pfeiffer or Hoffer.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Billingsley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14535</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregg Billingsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 22:44:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14535</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Point taken regarding the complications, however the patient in question was under diabetes-specific medical supervision, presumably any complications were well monitored for. Instead of launching a tirade would it not have been more professional for Dr Jarvis to state clearly that anyone following a low GL diet should consult their doctor to check for any ongoing complications that may have resulted from their previous diabetic state? Also, Dr Jarvis proceeded to insult the patient by off-handily stating several times that the diet was ‘common sense’ however it was NOT common sense to the subject else she would no doubt have eaten in this way sooner. How many people find it ‘common sense’ to eat a low GL diet to reverse diabetes? How many people even realise that conditions such as diabetes and heart disease can be reversed through diet? How many people even know about Dean Ornish or Caldwell Esselstyn? What IS common sense is that if people listened to what nutritionists (like Holford) are telling us, they would most likely prevent complications such as diabetes 2 arising in the first place.

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: you did not listen to the interview with full attention. Dr Jarvis was referring to the dietary recommendations that Patrick Holford was trying to pass off as original - she was distinguishing that from the nonsense of the supplements that he was pimping.

You have read through this blog and the earlier links and realise that Holford is not a qualified nutritionist, merely a pundit with a gift for publicity?

Again, once the diseases you mention are established, it is plausible that there is microvascular damage that is i) difficult to identify ii) not available to &#039;reversal&#039;.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Point taken regarding the complications, however the patient in question was under diabetes-specific medical supervision, presumably any complications were well monitored for. Instead of launching a tirade would it not have been more professional for Dr Jarvis to state clearly that anyone following a low GL diet should consult their doctor to check for any ongoing complications that may have resulted from their previous diabetic state? Also, Dr Jarvis proceeded to insult the patient by off-handily stating several times that the diet was ‘common sense’ however it was NOT common sense to the subject else she would no doubt have eaten in this way sooner. How many people find it ‘common sense’ to eat a low GL diet to reverse diabetes? How many people even realise that conditions such as diabetes and heart disease can be reversed through diet? How many people even know about Dean Ornish or Caldwell Esselstyn? What IS common sense is that if people listened to what nutritionists (like Holford) are telling us, they would most likely prevent complications such as diabetes 2 arising in the first place.</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: you did not listen to the interview with full attention. Dr Jarvis was referring to the dietary recommendations that Patrick Holford was trying to pass off as original &#8211; she was distinguishing that from the nonsense of the supplements that he was pimping.</p>
<p>You have read through this blog and the earlier links and realise that Holford is not a qualified nutritionist, merely a pundit with a gift for publicity?</p>
<p>Again, once the diseases you mention are established, it is plausible that there is microvascular damage that is i) difficult to identify ii) not available to &#8216;reversal&#8217;.</b></p>
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		<title>By: Gregg Billingsley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/comment-page-1/#comment-14509</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Gregg Billingsley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Jan 2009 20:31:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/2007/06/13/patrick-holford-v-dr-sarah-jarvis-the-video/#comment-14509</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Strange how Holford reversed the woman&#039;s diabetes on national TV and you are all so blinded that you didn&#039;t see it! Even the doctor idiotically carried on about complications! You can&#039;t have complications from something that has been reversed!!!! Poor DIET was the CAUSE of her diabetes and correct diet the CURE. I think the fact she came off her meds has perturbed representatives of a very powerful and unethical industry. Something is VERY wrong here.

&lt;b&gt;Admin edit: wow. You can&#039;t have complications from something that has been reversed? Golly. You have us stumped. Eh, no you don&#039;t. It is entirely possible to have microvascular damage from diabetes that has affected the kidneys, eyes etc. - and this microvascular damage may persist even when somebody gets their blood sugar under control.

If you had read the detail correctly, under the guidance and original eating plan given to her at the diabetes clinic and by her endocrinologist, it seems like she was already reducing her medication.

However, please, please correct your impression that the fact that an illness may be corrected doesn&#039;t mean that some effects don&#039;t persist. It&#039;s entirely possible to have a GI infection that is cured but the damage that it has caused persists.&lt;/b&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange how Holford reversed the woman&#8217;s diabetes on national TV and you are all so blinded that you didn&#8217;t see it! Even the doctor idiotically carried on about complications! You can&#8217;t have complications from something that has been reversed!!!! Poor DIET was the CAUSE of her diabetes and correct diet the CURE. I think the fact she came off her meds has perturbed representatives of a very powerful and unethical industry. Something is VERY wrong here.</p>
<p><b>Admin edit: wow. You can&#8217;t have complications from something that has been reversed? Golly. You have us stumped. Eh, no you don&#8217;t. It is entirely possible to have microvascular damage from diabetes that has affected the kidneys, eyes etc. &#8211; and this microvascular damage may persist even when somebody gets their blood sugar under control.</p>
<p>If you had read the detail correctly, under the guidance and original eating plan given to her at the diabetes clinic and by her endocrinologist, it seems like she was already reducing her medication.</p>
<p>However, please, please correct your impression that the fact that an illness may be corrected doesn&#8217;t mean that some effects don&#8217;t persist. It&#8217;s entirely possible to have a GI infection that is cured but the damage that it has caused persists.</b></p>
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