In a letter on the Guardian website, Professor Patrick Holford of Teesside University responds to Prof Colquhoun’s article on Endarkenment. Holford states that an example nutritional claim “given [in Colquhoun's article], apparently made by me, that ‘vitamin C is better than conventional drugs to treat AIDS’ is [Colquhoun's] own invention”. Strangely, though, in this very letter Holford links to some of his writing on AIDS where he claims that “AZT, the first prescribable anti-HIV drug, is potentially harmful and proving less effective than vitamin C”. I wonder if anyone on the Guardian staff followed this link, to check the accuracy of Holford’s claims prior to publishing the letter?
Now, I’m neither a ‘qualified’ nutritional therapist nor a lawyer - so I will leave readers to judge whether this claim about AZT constitutes a claim from Holford that vitamin C is better than conventional drugs to treat AIDS, and whether it was appropriate for the Guardian to publish Holford’s claim about Colquhoun’s “invention” unchallenged. I will also leave it to Teesside to decide whether it is appropriate for their new Professor of Nutrition and Mental Health to claim that Prof Colquhoun has ‘invented’ parts of his work.
30 responses so far ↓
jdc // October 11, 2007 at 8:48 pm
“I will leave readers to judge…”
I’ve made my mind up. And written to the Guardian to let them know my views on this part of the article.
LeeT // October 11, 2007 at 9:25 pm
How much vitamin C does Patrick Holford think people should take? Presumably he thinks mega-doses would help the immune system? Am I right in saying no trials have been done on humans? Recent research cast doubt over claims vitamin C could prevent the common cold. So I am bit skeptical that it could be the solution for a condition like AIDS …
jonhw // October 11, 2007 at 9:52 pm
David Colquhoun looks into this: Holford refers to an in vitro study which uses vitamin C concentrations “something like 10 times greater than can be achieved in man even with very high oral doses”.
There has been some research, and as I read it the data is rather mixed. From what I can see, it’s possible that vitamin C supplementation may either bring some benefit or cause some harm (when used as a complement to conventional AIDS treatment). Not a miracle cure, and something for patients to discuss with their doctor or dietitian…
LeeT // October 11, 2007 at 9:57 pm
Here is an interesting article from a South African new website written during Patrick Holford’s visit to the country back in February:
http://www.news24.com/News24/South_Africa/News/0,9294,2-7-1442_2074699,00.html
Curious // October 11, 2007 at 10:52 pm
So Professor David Colquhoun emerges again with his vitriolic remarks on nutrition. I haven’t seen all his comments re nutrtion, but he is the man that labels homeopathy as “crackpot medicine”.He , with other “Professors” has made it their aim to close all homeopathic hospitals to NHS patients by writing to the Primary Care Trusts telling them to withold funding as homeopathy “has no scientific proof that it works” Now ,it appears, that he is attacking Patrick Holford, who is probably the best nutritionist in this country. His training course is probably the best in the country, and the nutritionists he produces are far superior in their knowledge than any “dietitian”. One only has to look at the food the dietitians supervise in NHS hospitals to see the quality of their training.
Thre medical profession has long ignored the positive effect of proper nutrition….I believe it is not even in their curriculum in any depth. So get off his back, and listen to what he says.
Shopenhauser (philosopher) states:-
All truth goes through three stages First it is ridiculed…then it is violently opposed…finally it is accepted as self evident. I rest my case.
jonhw // October 11, 2007 at 11:19 pm
curious- I was never expecting for this project to run for so long. I’ve frankly been amazed by the number of mistakes we’ve found in Holford’s work: enough to sustain months on end of analysis. So no, I wouldn’t agree that Holford is the best nutritionist in the UK (or even in Teesside).
Thanks for the Schopenhauer quote. Of course, some ideas are ridiculed because they are silly, and then the ideas die (something that Schopenhauer was well aware of).
At any rate, I’m not sure how Schopenhauer would have felt at being utilised as an advocate for ‘optimum nutrition’: I suspect that he would have found the whole idea rather dull. Remember, this is the philosopher who argued that:
Catherine Collins RD // October 12, 2007 at 12:22 am
Curious says, in true ‘Carlsberg style’, that
“His training course is probably the best in the country, and the nutritionists he produces are far superior in their knowledge than any “dietitian”
What a ridiculous comment.
On mere qualifications alone any ‘RD’ possesses a BSc (Hons) science based degree and a legally recognised professional status the moment they graduate
Mr Holfords course entitles you to no such level of qualification, providing a ‘DipION’ that counts as a token ‘foundation status qualification’ that can be converted to a ‘proper nutrition degree’ with the minimum of a years further study at only one of the multitude of universities in the country that offers nutrition as a graduate subject. You can confirm this - if you are truly Curious - from the ION prospectus available on the ION website.
Your knowledge of dietetics vs nutrition appears pitiful. I assume from your comments that you have absolutely no knowledge of what a dietitian does, how we work, or what we do.
I’d like to challenge your assertion that my knowledge is lesson any level you like, Curious, but something tells me that your lack of insight would merely create a “futile cycle” of comments..
laughable, really
LeeT // October 12, 2007 at 6:45 am
It is interesting, as I have mentioned in other discussions, that very few nutritional therapists indeed choose to convert their qualification in to a BSc honours degree. Check out the websites of practioners available from the ION website. One would have hoped that further study would be a requirement of continuing professional development.
anandamide // October 12, 2007 at 9:54 am
Is there a Godwin’s law equivalent for that Schopenhauer quote?
PJ // October 12, 2007 at 12:46 pm
Nazi
coracle // October 12, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Ah, the Schopenhauer gambit, one of my favourites. Often seen on the paranoid fringes of Slashdot, of which there are plenty.
Curious // October 12, 2007 at 4:10 pm
Hi Catherine Collins RD
Well ,what a tirade against nutritionists!
I have looked at the BDA website under Food Facts, and how interesting it was.
Sugar…quote “the only problem directly linked to sugar is tooth decay” I presume you have not seen a child go manic after ingesting sugar. What about the dangers of aspartime in fizzy drinks that the children absolutely adore? No mention of that.
Probiotics with antibiotics. Well done, it’s on your web site, but very few doctors prescribe that combination. If they did, then there would not be so much stomachproblems with antibiotics.
Diet and behaviour of children….quote “Omega 3 fatty acids for children to improve their concentration. Results are inconclusive.” Aug 2007. What reports do you get? There have many trials to prove the opposite.
Cholesterol..”products containing stanols and sterols are not a substitute for lipid lowering medications”..You recomend statins with side effects which produce muscular and neurological problems. Beta sitosterol produces the same effect without side effects. You might be interested to know that 40 years ago, lecithin, a natural product, was recommended for reducing cholesterol. It is still available today, so why are you not recommending it?
These reports were written by dietitians with BSc (Hons)degrees.
You may find my remarks laughable, but the “highly qualified” members of your profession still have a lot to learn.
superburger // October 12, 2007 at 4:35 pm
curious
“What reports do you get? There have many trials to prove the opposite.”
What good quality trials in a general population of children show that omega-3s improve concentration? be interesting to see where they have been published….
LeeT // October 13, 2007 at 7:15 pm
Given that it does not seem likely that Schopenhauer would have endorsed Patrick Holford perhaps another 19th century German philopher will oblige. Nietzsche wrote about the idea of the superman or overman: “All beings so far have created something beyond themselves; and do you want to be the ebb of this great flood and even go back to the beasts rather than overcome man? What is the ape to man? A laughingstock or a painful embarrassment. And man shall be just that for the overman: a laughingstock or a painful embarrassment…” (See http://personal.ecu.edu/mccartyr/great/projects/Knowles.htm)
If you think the superman is a myth go to this GMTV webchat which took place earlier in the year:
Viewer: “I’d be fascinated to know whether you suffer from any health problems and do you ever have to go to the doctor?!”
Dr [sic ????]Patrick Holford : I see a doctor about once a decade! I have only one health issue - sinus problems. When I was a kid I was undiagnosed milk allergic and ended up having adenoids, tonsils out plus ops on my sinuses! Bad idea! Other than that I’m is [sic] 100% health with more energy and mental clarity now than before! http://www.gm.tv/index.cfm?articleid=20109
The choice is yours everyone. Do you want to be a superman in a 100% health or …. a laughing stock? Incidentally, does GMTV have the power to award doctorates?!!
Catherine Collins RD // October 13, 2007 at 7:20 pm
Curious
you confirm my presumptions. Unfortunately, we RD’s use evidence based medicine on which to base our recommendations - not hypothetical musings, whimsical anecdote, or tomes written by enthusiastic nutrition amateurs who claim “to have studied nutrition for 30 years but still have the ability to completely misread a clinical paper for the purpose of self promotion/ supplement sales/ fooling the gullible”.
I make no apologies for my profession, its professional organisation (the BDA at http://www.bda.uk.com) or the public fact sheets that give the individual an objective, impartial and accurate interpretation of the current evidence supporting the medical/ nutrition research.
Your comments are amusing for those with any clinical knowledge of nutrition. You are obviously sensitized to the alternative aspects of nutrition, for which RDs give short shrift, given that virtually all the ‘nutritional concerns’ raised are completely irrelevant in clinical nutrition.
LeeT // October 13, 2007 at 8:51 pm
Curious - you are quoting out of context again. The factsheet on the BDA website answers the question, “Is sugar bad for you?” with “No, it’s the amount and how frequently you eat sugar that matters.” It goes on to say, “sugary foods can only make us gain weight if overall we eat more calories than we burn.” That’s why the Food Standards Agency food wheel advises us not to eat much in the way of sugary foods!
‘Dr’ Holford, good blogs and a puzzling Skeptic’s Circle « Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science // October 13, 2007 at 11:40 pm
[...] of the commenters on this blog noticed that GMTV have made a similar mistake, and apparently quite a few media bodies (GMTV, RTE, etc) have mistakenly assumed that Holford is a [...]
jonhw // October 14, 2007 at 4:54 pm
so, re. sugar, there’s a contrast between the BDA - which knows what sugar is, and gives relatively clear advice on the need to limit sugar consumption - and a nutritionist who gives much less clear advice and appears to be confused re. what can be classified as ’sugar’.
I know which is more convincing to me.
Curious // October 15, 2007 at 8:16 am
The RD’s give short shrift to alternative aspects of nutrition, we only used evidence based medicine,typical narrow-minded remarks from the allopathic lobby. Incidentally, you haven’t contradicted my observations.
Have you seen the report brom the Mental Health Foundation , “Feeding Minds”. Probably not. I suggest that you obtain a copy, you might learn something!
I am now justified in confirming none of you has an open mind, and take great delight in putting your faith in allopathic, “evidence” based medicine. Are you aware that iatrogenic illness (caused by the side effects of “evidence” based drugs) is now the 4th leading cause of death?
This is my last comment. Goodbye, and good luck in your closed world of medicine.
Observant good cook // October 15, 2007 at 9:51 am
Your dialogue with my husband would be laughable, if the end result were not so serious. As, a cook for some 50 years and considered a good one I think I can take issue with your opinions.
You only have to observe the type of food served in NHS hospitals presumably based on a dietiticians’ advice to see how lacking in nutrition it is. True it has to be massed produced and it is difficult to provide food of the same quality as that prepared on a smaller scale, which has to be, by definition of a higher standard. In addition, it is brought around in trolleys which keep the food warm, killing more of the nutritional content.
You do not have to have a degree to know that the more time vegetables are cooked and then kept warm kills the Vitamin C content.
To base your concept on evidence base medicine will get you nowhere. This type of research has been oft times proved to be flawed - for instance can you confirm that hydogenated fats have been removed from all hospital food?
I have read comments before from dietiticians and would politely suggest that you should go all back to basics - mass produced food with little or no vitamin/mineral content is not going to improve anyone’s health, and especially those who are confined in hospital.
Perhaps, if you had qualifications from a reputable school where cooking is taught your arguments might be valid. I am wondering if any of you have ever been on a course conducted by any of the wellknown chefs?
To be so doctrinaire about your dietitcian qualifications and decry those who think otherwise, displays a degree of ignorance and arrogance which I find appalling.
I am sure you will accept, that food that has been grown organically without pesticides has to be more beneficial. Obviously it is going to be more expensive and as we all know, the NHS is not going to expend money in this direction. If the Management of most NHS hospitals cannot keep their wards clean for the total benefit of the patients, then you would hardly expect them to care about the quality of the food.
jonhw // October 15, 2007 at 1:00 pm
Curious- I’m not sure what is allopathic about looking at the evidence for what constitutes healthy eating, and what supplements are/are not useful. Certainly, this is an approach to nutrition that I would favour. What alternative approach would you suggest? Please don’t say something like health dowsing…
Observant- certainly, there are problems with food in many hospitals. In my understanding, this is often down in large part to the same problems that often effect institutional food: lack of funding, and the logistical problems associated with catering for a large institution. Certainly, this should be improved - but what it needs is funding for good quality ingredients, the building of appropriate kitchen facilities, training of staff, etc. There is no need for ‘alternative’ nutrition here.
moonflake // October 15, 2007 at 3:42 pm
aaah right, Patrick, of course, you never did claim that Vitamin C was more effective than AZT, you claimed that AZT was less effective than Vitamin C. Totally understand the difference there, our mistake!
jonhw // October 15, 2007 at 6:01 pm
I genuinely find it aaah right, Patrick, of course, you never did claim that Vitamin C was more effective than AZT, you claimed that AZT was less effective than Vitamin C. Totally understand the difference there, our mistake!
I really find it hard to get my head round what Holford is saying here. He’s not using ‘less’ in the same way as I would…
Observant good cook // October 15, 2007 at 7:10 pm
Funding, JonHW, well now we are back to money, always a problem, but good food need not cost a fortune.
Even now, the cheaper supermarkets are going over to good organic food, and this cooked properly can in some cases help repair what has ‘broken down’ within the human body.
I find it amazing that a person (especially a woman who has had a family) has to be trained in how to cook decent food. Maybe it is something lacking in the English psyche? You would certainly not suggest to an Italian, French or any continental woman that she requires teaching about good food and how to cook it. They would be insulted.
May I even be bold enough to suggest that organic grown produce could prevent disease -certain diseases associated with poor diet and nutrition. It does not necessarily have to cost a fortune, but with hospital food we are in another ball park. Let us keep it simple…the home is where it all starts.
By the way, I will not suggest health dowsing, although I privately think there is something to be said for it.
Jamie Oliver, bravely, had the right idea. He attempted to improve the school diet, after all its the children you need to get through to. What happened , some misinformed mothers were sabotaging his efforts through the fence of one particular school. At least he gave the country something to think about, and about time too.
So we now come to the family, and when I visit a supermarket and watch what young mothers put in their baskets I am shocked. Bottles of coca cola, crisps, white bread, ready prepared meals full of salt. I know working mothers find it a problem with time, but I too worked as a single parent many years ago, but I always managed to prepare decent meals, especially good soups, and sometimes a roast. Plenty of vegetables and fruit, and believe me, I was certainly not flush with money.
So maybe the dietiticians should approach the Head Teachers of schools and try and alter eating habits, start them young, so that it may prevent future problems when the children become adults. Or maybe this is happening already - I know the government are launching another initiative because they are now seriously worried about obesity with young people.
Now I will declare an interest, I happen to be a complementary medicine practitioner. I consider it ill befits those who consider themselves professionals to lambast someone in the field of nutrition just because he wishes to improve our diet, it seems very shortsighted when in the long term those who care about our food and its quality have the same end goal. It is simply a question, as I see, of how this goal can be reached maybe the two professions could work together, or is that too much to ask?
LeeT // October 15, 2007 at 7:14 pm
Curious - I have to say until today I had gone 34 years without ever encountering the word “iatrogenic”. Not sure when I’ll need it again, but for those of you without an Oxford dictionary to hand it means “relating to illness caused by caused by medical examination or treatment.” It is true that many people die within the walls of a hospital. They generally have higher death rates than, say, Butlins holiday camps because they are full of ill people who were admitted because of medical problems. Are you saying victims of meningitis and those who have had a heart attack would stand a greater chance of recovery if they refused all medical treatment? Thank you for the link to the “Feeding Minds”. It was full of sensible advice such as eating fruit, vegetables and wholefoods. Presumably they have been advised by dieticians? Part of Patrick Holford’s package for mental health is taking supplements. Given that most people with clinical depression are surviving on benefits that is not very good advice for them!
Observant – I am not sure dieticians have much control over hospital food. A lot of catering was outsourced in the 1980s what with the budget cuts of the Thatcher governments. (Incidentally, newspapers that give Mr Holford lots of good publicity such as “The Times” and “The Daily Mail” enthusiastically supported Conservative health policy in the 1980s. And his supporters have had the nerve on this blog to call the rest of right-wing!) No, I have not been on a course led by any wellknown chef! Which chef are you referring to? I am not sure Jamie Oliver, Delia Smith, Nigella Lawson and Anthony Worrall-Thompson cut out meat or dairy products from their recipes. Has anyone seen the Optimum Nutrition Bible Cook Book (yep, there is such a book)? It would be interesting to compare that with, say, one of Jamie Oliver’s cookbooks. Regarding organic food some of it is very good. More work needs to be done to see which foods organic foods are better for us than their conventional equivalents. Just because something is not certified organic does not mean is it of inferior quality. Palestinian farmers, for example, are very keen to get their olive oil in to European markets. Lack of money means they cannot engage with the bureaucracy of organic certification.
jdc // October 15, 2007 at 8:01 pm
I wonder why ‘curious’ started posting as ‘observant good cook’? Weird.
LeeT // October 15, 2007 at 9:47 pm
Oberservant Good Cook,
You state “it ill befits those who consider themselves professionals to lambast someone in the field of nutrition”. It was the poster who you say is your husband who had strong words to say about dieticians
The nutrition society published a report about nutritional professionals. Do take a look:
http://www.nutritionsociety.org/documents/20060629fulldefiningnutritionreportforcouncil.pdf
There are lots of good people working in the field of nutritional therapy. However, my main concern is whether three years of part-time study is sufficient to treat often vulnerable people. I would like to see regulation and all Dip IONs to be oliged to take further academic study unless they have a relevant degree such as biochemistry or food science. Is that too much to ask …? I hope not for all our sakes.
Teabag // October 15, 2007 at 9:54 pm
Obervant -
In all your years of good home cooking did you ever feel that your family required various expensive supplements that some “nutritionists” claim to be essential?
LeeT // November 4, 2007 at 12:53 pm
Some South African nutritional therapists very kindly provided me with these websites about Vitamin C. It would be interesting to know what people think especially if you are a biochemist or pharmacist
Linus Pauling Institute - http://lpi.oregonstate.edu/
Vitamin C Foundation - http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/
Common Myths « Holford Myths: what is the problem with Nutritionist Patrick Holford? // January 5, 2008 at 2:56 pm
[...] Patrick Holford sometimes denies having claimed that vitamin C is proving more effective than AZT, bizarrely, and at length, but it is absolutely accurate, entirely in context and [...]
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