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	<title>Comments on: Prof Patrick Holford makes a basic error about antioxidant side effects</title>
	<atom:link href="http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9567</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 13:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9567</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Koo wondered why a post hadn&#039;t got through: &quot;was it because I mentioned how in a normal day it was impossible to tot up the amount of aspartame you were consuming&quot;
Quoting from the SCF report (my italics) - 
The available estimates of intake
of aspartame by mean and high level consumers are fairly consistent among European
countries, even though different approaches were used for the assessment. They show
that &lt;i&gt;intakes in high level consumers, including adults, children, and diabetics of all
ages, range up to 10 mg/kg bw/day and thus are unlikely to exceed the current ADI
for aspartame of 40 mg/kg bw established by the SCF (1985, 1989)&lt;/i&gt;.

&quot;aspartame seems to be an essential ingredient in pharms&quot; -
Erm, as opposed to natural products like vitamins and minerals? Check out the chewable vitamin tablets and capsules available - many contain one or more of the following intensive sweeteners: aspartame, acesuflame K, sodium cyclamate. Aspartame is very common indeed in food supplements. Why focus on its presence in pharmaceuticals?

&quot;the FDA and FSA are corrupt&quot; -
Do you have evidence for this or is this just another baseless, paranoid assertion?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koo wondered why a post hadn&#8217;t got through: &#8220;was it because I mentioned how in a normal day it was impossible to tot up the amount of aspartame you were consuming&#8221;<br />
Quoting from the SCF report (my italics) &#8211;<br />
The available estimates of intake<br />
of aspartame by mean and high level consumers are fairly consistent among European<br />
countries, even though different approaches were used for the assessment. They show<br />
that <i>intakes in high level consumers, including adults, children, and diabetics of all<br />
ages, range up to 10 mg/kg bw/day and thus are unlikely to exceed the current ADI<br />
for aspartame of 40 mg/kg bw established by the SCF (1985, 1989)</i>.</p>
<p>&#8220;aspartame seems to be an essential ingredient in pharms&#8221; -<br />
Erm, as opposed to natural products like vitamins and minerals? Check out the chewable vitamin tablets and capsules available &#8211; many contain one or more of the following intensive sweeteners: aspartame, acesuflame K, sodium cyclamate. Aspartame is very common indeed in food supplements. Why focus on its presence in pharmaceuticals?</p>
<p>&#8220;the FDA and FSA are corrupt&#8221; -<br />
Do you have evidence for this or is this just another baseless, paranoid assertion?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Wulfstan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9563</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wulfstan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 08:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9563</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ooh, let&#039;s see. What&#039;s the more plausible explanation. HW have censored one of your ludicrous messages or you have somehow made a mistake. 

Well, we can see plenty of evidence of your comments getting through.

We can see plenty of evidence of asinine mistakes that you make on a regular basis that you won&#039;t acknowledge and blame others for.

That wasn&#039;t hard.

Whatever your warblings about aspartame, jdc325 gave you some good information. It just seems like you are as incapable of understanding that as you are why you were advocating lethal doses of selenium. Whoever cultivated that over-blown sense of self-esteem in you, they did you no favours. 

With whatever remains of your sentient life, drag yourself along to Adult Ed. and acquire the skill of reading and learning plus some basic maths - in your case, it may literally save your life.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooh, let&#8217;s see. What&#8217;s the more plausible explanation. HW have censored one of your ludicrous messages or you have somehow made a mistake. </p>
<p>Well, we can see plenty of evidence of your comments getting through.</p>
<p>We can see plenty of evidence of asinine mistakes that you make on a regular basis that you won&#8217;t acknowledge and blame others for.</p>
<p>That wasn&#8217;t hard.</p>
<p>Whatever your warblings about aspartame, jdc325 gave you some good information. It just seems like you are as incapable of understanding that as you are why you were advocating lethal doses of selenium. Whoever cultivated that over-blown sense of self-esteem in you, they did you no favours. </p>
<p>With whatever remains of your sentient life, drag yourself along to Adult Ed. and acquire the skill of reading and learning plus some basic maths &#8211; in your case, it may literally save your life.</p>
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		<title>By: koo</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9561</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[koo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 May 2008 01:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9561</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[you seemed to of misplaced my reply

anything to do with saying that the FDA and FSA are corrupt?

or was it because I mentioned how in a normal day it was impossible to tot up the amount of aspartame  you were consuming

or was it because I mentioned aspartame seems to be an essential ingredient in pharms

either way this is sedition, you know what you are doing]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>you seemed to of misplaced my reply</p>
<p>anything to do with saying that the FDA and FSA are corrupt?</p>
<p>or was it because I mentioned how in a normal day it was impossible to tot up the amount of aspartame  you were consuming</p>
<p>or was it because I mentioned aspartame seems to be an essential ingredient in pharms</p>
<p>either way this is sedition, you know what you are doing</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9548</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9548</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Koo - re your throwaway line about there being no limit on aspartame: JECFA, SCF and COT established an Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) of 40 mg/kg body weight/day and the English regulations on sweeteners set limits for sweeteners (including aspartame) in different types of food.
SCF report on aspartame: http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scf/out155_en.pdf
The Sweeteners in Food Regulations 1995: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19953123_en_2.htm

You seem to have ignored my earlier reference to ‘micrograms’ (µg) and ‘milligrams’ (mg). Perhaps you will take note of Gimpy: &quot;Such confusion is lethal with regards to selenium dosage&quot;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koo &#8211; re your throwaway line about there being no limit on aspartame: JECFA, SCF and COT established an Acceptable Daily Intake (ADI) of 40 mg/kg body weight/day and the English regulations on sweeteners set limits for sweeteners (including aspartame) in different types of food.<br />
SCF report on aspartame: <a href="http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scf/out155_en.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://ec.europa.eu/food/fs/sc/scf/out155_en.pdf</a><br />
The Sweeteners in Food Regulations 1995: <a href="http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19953123_en_2.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1995/Uksi_19953123_en_2.htm</a></p>
<p>You seem to have ignored my earlier reference to ‘micrograms’ (µg) and ‘milligrams’ (mg). Perhaps you will take note of Gimpy: &#8220;Such confusion is lethal with regards to selenium dosage&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Woobegone</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9547</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Woobegone]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:14:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9547</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Koo, if you don&#039;t believe us, believe BioCare :
http://www.biocare.co.uk/ecommerce/pdfs/135.pdf

Even they don&#039;t recommend more than 200 ug (0.2 mg) per day.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Koo, if you don&#8217;t believe us, believe BioCare :<br />
<a href="http://www.biocare.co.uk/ecommerce/pdfs/135.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.biocare.co.uk/ecommerce/pdfs/135.pdf</a></p>
<p>Even they don&#8217;t recommend more than 200 ug (0.2 mg) per day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: gimpy</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9546</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gimpy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 14:08:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9546</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ooops! That should be three orders of magnitude not &#039;an order of magnitude&#039;.  I just didn&#039;t proof read my post.  I do know the difference.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ooops! That should be three orders of magnitude not &#8216;an order of magnitude&#8217;.  I just didn&#8217;t proof read my post.  I do know the difference.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Wulfstan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9545</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wulfstan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:59:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9545</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You still can&#039;t acknowledge that you don&#039;t understand the difference between milligrams and micrograms? Do you even vaguely comprehend that you are advocating the consumption of 200,000 micrograms? 

Go on, Koo - post a picture of the bottle of supplements you are taking with a close up of the nutrient information label. Name the manufacturer and the product. State the number of pills that you take.

Denial is a powerful and dangerous state. Once again.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Koo - it would be reassuring to know that you don’t give nutritional advice to anyone who would heed you.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You do realise that if somebody took you seriously you could kill them? Do you even vaguely comprehend the enormity of your error?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You still can&#8217;t acknowledge that you don&#8217;t understand the difference between milligrams and micrograms? Do you even vaguely comprehend that you are advocating the consumption of 200,000 micrograms? </p>
<p>Go on, Koo &#8211; post a picture of the bottle of supplements you are taking with a close up of the nutrient information label. Name the manufacturer and the product. State the number of pills that you take.</p>
<p>Denial is a powerful and dangerous state. Once again.</p>
<blockquote><p>Koo &#8211; it would be reassuring to know that you don’t give nutritional advice to anyone who would heed you.
</p></blockquote>
<p>You do realise that if somebody took you seriously you could kill them? Do you even vaguely comprehend the enormity of your error?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: gimpy</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9544</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[gimpy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 13:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9544</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[koo, before you embarrass yourself further I have to point out that there is an order of magnitude difference between a microgram (µg) and milligram (mg).  Such confusion is lethal with regards to selenium dosage.  I pray to the great Dawkins that you are not taking such vast amounts nor telling other people to and that your statement merely represents a staggering scientific ignorance rather than actual clinical practice.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>koo, before you embarrass yourself further I have to point out that there is an order of magnitude difference between a microgram (µg) and milligram (mg).  Such confusion is lethal with regards to selenium dosage.  I pray to the great Dawkins that you are not taking such vast amounts nor telling other people to and that your statement merely represents a staggering scientific ignorance rather than actual clinical practice.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: koo</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9543</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[koo]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:36:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9543</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[0.45mg of selenium has no beneficial effects on the human body at all, none.

These new safe upper limits are a nonesence
note there is no safe upper limit imposed on aspartame

Selenium is a very efficient anti carcinogenic

I don&#039;t need you guys to tell me that the selenium I take at the levels that I take it in are doing me harm because I see and feel nothing but benefits. This particular supplement has transformed my life.

Your &#039;safe upper limits&#039; do not take into account that everybody&#039;s chemistry is different and some need more then others.......................

Your safe upper limits are part of the Codex standards that are being introduced in 2009 and I know what the motivation behind it is, its a shame you don&#039;t but maybe one day you will figure it out.


Codex is a trade commission not a health commission it is there to protect the interests of the pharms not individuals health]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>0.45mg of selenium has no beneficial effects on the human body at all, none.</p>
<p>These new safe upper limits are a nonesence<br />
note there is no safe upper limit imposed on aspartame</p>
<p>Selenium is a very efficient anti carcinogenic</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t need you guys to tell me that the selenium I take at the levels that I take it in are doing me harm because I see and feel nothing but benefits. This particular supplement has transformed my life.</p>
<p>Your &#8216;safe upper limits&#8217; do not take into account that everybody&#8217;s chemistry is different and some need more then others&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Your safe upper limits are part of the Codex standards that are being introduced in 2009 and I know what the motivation behind it is, its a shame you don&#8217;t but maybe one day you will figure it out.</p>
<p>Codex is a trade commission not a health commission it is there to protect the interests of the pharms not individuals health</p>
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		<title>By: LeeT</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/04/24/prof-patrick-holford-makes-a-basic-error-about-antioxidant-side-effects/comment-page-1/#comment-9506</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[LeeT]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 18:41:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=418#comment-9506</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;Over-supplementation with selenium is risky because the difference between safe and toxic does is relatively small. Safe upper levels are set for adults at no more than 450 micrograms per day. Toxic effects are seen at levels as low as 900 micrograms per day. In China, nutritionists linked doses as high as  5 milligrams of selenium a day (90 times the RNI) to thickened but fragile nails, hair loss, and perspiration with a garlicky odour.&quot;  (Nutrition for Dummies, John Wiley &amp; Sons, p.140)

Brazil nuts are a good soucre of selenium - you need only TWO of them to get the recommended RNI.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Over-supplementation with selenium is risky because the difference between safe and toxic does is relatively small. Safe upper levels are set for adults at no more than 450 micrograms per day. Toxic effects are seen at levels as low as 900 micrograms per day. In China, nutritionists linked doses as high as  5 milligrams of selenium a day (90 times the RNI) to thickened but fragile nails, hair loss, and perspiration with a garlicky odour.&#8221;  (Nutrition for Dummies, John Wiley &amp; Sons, p.140)</p>
<p>Brazil nuts are a good soucre of selenium &#8211; you need only TWO of them to get the recommended RNI.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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