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	<title>Comments on: Dore UK clients are &#8220;very unlikely&#8221; to get a refund of any money they are owed by the company</title>
	<atom:link href="http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-10187</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:07:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Keeley, that is wretched news for you. I hope that the solicitors are able to be of some assistance to you.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Keeley, that is wretched news for you. I hope that the solicitors are able to be of some assistance to you.</p>
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		<title>By: keeley</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-10178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[keeley]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 13:47:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-10178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[have been to the soliciters this morning.They have said that &quot;dore &amp; zebra might have been working together.I only joined my son in March paid through &quot;Zebra&quot; for the program.With in 2 months the so called Dore was going bust.A bit of a coincidence or what.Will fight this to the end.They expect you to carry on the program with the internet,what a cheek.Where has my £2,664.36 gone.It was very easy to get the loan ,just had to sign and send back.Something is going on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>have been to the soliciters this morning.They have said that &#8220;dore &amp; zebra might have been working together.I only joined my son in March paid through &#8220;Zebra&#8221; for the program.With in 2 months the so called Dore was going bust.A bit of a coincidence or what.Will fight this to the end.They expect you to carry on the program with the internet,what a cheek.Where has my £2,664.36 gone.It was very easy to get the loan ,just had to sign and send back.Something is going on !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!</p>
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		<title>By: Via</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9966</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Via]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 Jun 2008 17:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9966</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Tomj - You sum Dore&#039;s possible reasons for closure well.

The relationship between Zebra Finance was openly discussed in the Sales Team.
According to Zebra, Wynford Dore provided  X amount of money , held separately,  to cover any possible &#039;debt&#039; that Dore clients might fall into. 
Zebra&#039;s credit scoring was adapted to enable some of  Dore  clients to take out a loan for the programme. Many of these client would have been considered as &quot;high risk&quot; and credit scoring would normally have been more stringent but for the &quot;safeguard&quot; pot of money, provided by Wynford Dore.

I wonder if that &quot;safeguard&quot; is still in existence? I would have thought Zebra had the financial acumen, insight and foresight into the impending doom of the green Dore slamming!]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tomj &#8211; You sum Dore&#8217;s possible reasons for closure well.</p>
<p>The relationship between Zebra Finance was openly discussed in the Sales Team.<br />
According to Zebra, Wynford Dore provided  X amount of money , held separately,  to cover any possible &#8216;debt&#8217; that Dore clients might fall into.<br />
Zebra&#8217;s credit scoring was adapted to enable some of  Dore  clients to take out a loan for the programme. Many of these client would have been considered as &#8220;high risk&#8221; and credit scoring would normally have been more stringent but for the &#8220;safeguard&#8221; pot of money, provided by Wynford Dore.</p>
<p>I wonder if that &#8220;safeguard&#8221; is still in existence? I would have thought Zebra had the financial acumen, insight and foresight into the impending doom of the green Dore slamming!</p>
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		<title>By: TomJ</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9892</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TomJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 21:57:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9892</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, definately something fishy going on.  Under normal circumstances I would just expect them not to do anything about keeping people on the program, but given thier behavior, and the fact that Dore seems to have been a major part of Zebras business (see http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/dore.htm) it does make me think the are cooperating with eachother, who knows how the compaines are tied together.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, definately something fishy going on.  Under normal circumstances I would just expect them not to do anything about keeping people on the program, but given thier behavior, and the fact that Dore seems to have been a major part of Zebras business (see <a href="http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/dore.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.zebrafinance.co.uk/dore.htm</a>) it does make me think the are cooperating with eachother, who knows how the compaines are tied together.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9889</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 09:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9889</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yes, I&#039;m a little apprehensive that using &lt;i&gt;My Dore&lt;/i&gt; will be taken as a de facto proof of acceptance of a settlement and will preclude any financial refund.

As for the rest, I would hope that the mainstream media that have the resources and interest will follow this up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I&#8217;m a little apprehensive that using <i>My Dore</i> will be taken as a de facto proof of acceptance of a settlement and will preclude any financial refund.</p>
<p>As for the rest, I would hope that the mainstream media that have the resources and interest will follow this up.</p>
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		<title>By: TomJ</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9884</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[TomJ]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 15:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9884</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don think the bad science was Dores only problem, although it contibuted to it.  A number of people have suggested the following reasons for going bust

1. Bad publicity. specifically the recent (about 6 months ago) ABC  program, this came just before a large number of the australian centers shut.

2.Gloabl credit crunch.  It seems more of Dores clients are low income families, the sort of people for whom getting credit is now near impossible, or prohibitivly expensive, like alot of businesses now.  Without the HP the people able to pay for Dore have dried up.

3. there is a new consumer selling act comin into force in the UK soon, this could cause problems for what dore are selling.

4. an ex employee, Bob Clarke was due to have an employment trbunal shortly, Dore may have been concerned about what he was about to expose.

What I dont believe is that Dore was running at a loss.  The variable costs for the program were a couple of hundred pounds and they were charging 2500.  Any &#039;hole&#039; in thier accounts is probably more likely due to the money being moved to another company etc.  Dore states that he never took a &#039;salary&#039; but there are plenty of other ways of getting money out of a company.  And there are plenty of companies that have gone under and still made alot of money for thier directors.

Its just very sad for the clients that wont get anyhting back, in particular, the MyDore thing is just a way of telling clients that they are continuing the program and have no claim.  I also find it disgusting that, according to a number of ex employees, they were not allowed to ring clients and tell them not to travel for thier next appointment, instead let them turn up and find an empty office, no notices.  This is just a way of stalling people to invalidate any later claim.

I am surprised at how well people are taking this, saying that they have faith in Wynford Dore and they will be able to complete the program, although I am not sure if these are real people, maybe just part of the marketing.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don think the bad science was Dores only problem, although it contibuted to it.  A number of people have suggested the following reasons for going bust</p>
<p>1. Bad publicity. specifically the recent (about 6 months ago) ABC  program, this came just before a large number of the australian centers shut.</p>
<p>2.Gloabl credit crunch.  It seems more of Dores clients are low income families, the sort of people for whom getting credit is now near impossible, or prohibitivly expensive, like alot of businesses now.  Without the HP the people able to pay for Dore have dried up.</p>
<p>3. there is a new consumer selling act comin into force in the UK soon, this could cause problems for what dore are selling.</p>
<p>4. an ex employee, Bob Clarke was due to have an employment trbunal shortly, Dore may have been concerned about what he was about to expose.</p>
<p>What I dont believe is that Dore was running at a loss.  The variable costs for the program were a couple of hundred pounds and they were charging 2500.  Any &#8216;hole&#8217; in thier accounts is probably more likely due to the money being moved to another company etc.  Dore states that he never took a &#8216;salary&#8217; but there are plenty of other ways of getting money out of a company.  And there are plenty of companies that have gone under and still made alot of money for thier directors.</p>
<p>Its just very sad for the clients that wont get anyhting back, in particular, the MyDore thing is just a way of telling clients that they are continuing the program and have no claim.  I also find it disgusting that, according to a number of ex employees, they were not allowed to ring clients and tell them not to travel for thier next appointment, instead let them turn up and find an empty office, no notices.  This is just a way of stalling people to invalidate any later claim.</p>
<p>I am surprised at how well people are taking this, saying that they have faith in Wynford Dore and they will be able to complete the program, although I am not sure if these are real people, maybe just part of the marketing.</p>
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		<title>By: brainduck</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9880</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[brainduck]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 15:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9880</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris, I&#039;ve said in my blog that I&#039;d rather have argued this on research than finances. I do think the lack of research was one of the things which finally brought them down, insofar as it meant they didn&#039;t get into schools as much as they wanted. I suspect the original business plan was never meant to get as far as it did with all the subsidy it entailed. The research just didn&#039;t justify it being taken up by the Govt though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, I&#8217;ve said in my blog that I&#8217;d rather have argued this on research than finances. I do think the lack of research was one of the things which finally brought them down, insofar as it meant they didn&#8217;t get into schools as much as they wanted. I suspect the original business plan was never meant to get as far as it did with all the subsidy it entailed. The research just didn&#8217;t justify it being taken up by the Govt though.</p>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9878</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 12:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9878</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Chris- I certainly don&#039;t believe that Dore UK going into administration proves that their science was bad: I was arguing that the research had been shown to be poor from well before I knew of any financial problems.  In fact, I suspect that the poor quality of Dore&#039;s research had rather little impact on the success or failure of the business: they were able to publicise the treatment very effectively in the mainstream media even without good research.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris- I certainly don&#8217;t believe that Dore UK going into administration proves that their science was bad: I was arguing that the research had been shown to be poor from well before I knew of any financial problems.  In fact, I suspect that the poor quality of Dore&#8217;s research had rather little impact on the success or failure of the business: they were able to publicise the treatment very effectively in the mainstream media even without good research.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Cox</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9876</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Don Cox]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 11:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9876</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&quot;However, the government funding would rely upon an adequate research base&quot;

Well, it _should_ rely on adequate research, but in practice the government funds many things on a basis of pure hunch, guesswork or dogma.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, the government funding would rely upon an adequate research base&#8221;</p>
<p>Well, it _should_ rely on adequate research, but in practice the government funds many things on a basis of pure hunch, guesswork or dogma.</p>
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		<title>By: Wulfstan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/05/31/dore-uk-clients-are-very-unlikely-to-get-a-refund-of-any-money-they-are-owed-by-the-company/comment-page-1/#comment-9875</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wulfstan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 09:43:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=456#comment-9875</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I don&#039;t read it that way, Chris - but everyone has their own interpretation.

I think that most of the commentary that I&#039;ve read has been clear that they think the science is scant and of poor quality. As a separate issue, they have been concerned for some time that Dore was not using a sustainable business model. However, to some extent, the science and business model were intertwined because it seems as if Dore were assuming that there would be government funding at some point. However, the government funding would rely upon an adequate research base and in the absence of this, no funding was available and thus the business eventually collapsed.

Judging by the comments from ex-employees, it does seem as if the price-tag was inflated by some poor business judgment. You can have something that is simultaneously too expensive and yet losing money - the UK car industry in the 70s comes to mind.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t read it that way, Chris &#8211; but everyone has their own interpretation.</p>
<p>I think that most of the commentary that I&#8217;ve read has been clear that they think the science is scant and of poor quality. As a separate issue, they have been concerned for some time that Dore was not using a sustainable business model. However, to some extent, the science and business model were intertwined because it seems as if Dore were assuming that there would be government funding at some point. However, the government funding would rely upon an adequate research base and in the absence of this, no funding was available and thus the business eventually collapsed.</p>
<p>Judging by the comments from ex-employees, it does seem as if the price-tag was inflated by some poor business judgment. You can have something that is simultaneously too expensive and yet losing money &#8211; the UK car industry in the 70s comes to mind.</p>
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