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	<title>Comments on: Cialdini and Consistency: Why This Might Influence Trust in CAM</title>
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	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: duncan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-34605</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[duncan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jul 2010 12:07:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description><![CDATA[Wheres the MDMA? The younger generation are taking dangerous &#039;legal&#039; highs and s*** drugs. MDMA is safe and beautiful but has vanished from the country. The gonerment are the dangerous ones

MODERATOR EDIT: swearword asterixed.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wheres the MDMA? The younger generation are taking dangerous &#8216;legal&#8217; highs and s*** drugs. MDMA is safe and beautiful but has vanished from the country. The gonerment are the dangerous ones</p>
<p>MODERATOR EDIT: swearword asterixed.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Gormly</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-34389</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Michael Gormly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jul 2010 01:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-34389</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[An interesting discussion -- I will now seek out Cialdini&#039;s book.

I approach this question through the lens of drug law reform. Reformers are inundated with headline-making &#039;studies&#039; that indicate harms from drugs and indirectly reinforce prohibition.

But a cursory look at the organisations producing these &#039;studies&#039; shows they are explicitly funded to seek out harms from drugs, and their continued funding depends on getting results.

Time and again, analysis of the &#039;studies&#039; reveals, if not gaping holes in the methodology and conclusions, then at least a tendency to present minuscule &#039;harms&#039; divorced from any comparative context, allowing them to be absurdly exaggerated.

Typically these intrinsically biased studies are done by competent researchers who use tell-tale terms like &#039;linked to&#039; and &#039;may be&#039;, and usually finish with a call for further research [funding] on the subject.

A good example is the mass of data purporting to show the great harms of MDMA (ecstasy), compared with statistical comparisons that show the substance to be ten times safer than peanuts, or about a dangerous as taking an international flight.

This use of science to support an agenda reduces my faith in &#039;Science&#039; dramatically and patently fails to convince drug-users to stop using as the official discourse bears little relation to their life experience.

The extent to which governments and corporations &#039;buy&#039; scientific outcomes is one of the more serious challenges to the integrity of science,  damaging its effectiveness and credibility.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An interesting discussion &#8212; I will now seek out Cialdini&#8217;s book.</p>
<p>I approach this question through the lens of drug law reform. Reformers are inundated with headline-making &#8216;studies&#8217; that indicate harms from drugs and indirectly reinforce prohibition.</p>
<p>But a cursory look at the organisations producing these &#8216;studies&#8217; shows they are explicitly funded to seek out harms from drugs, and their continued funding depends on getting results.</p>
<p>Time and again, analysis of the &#8216;studies&#8217; reveals, if not gaping holes in the methodology and conclusions, then at least a tendency to present minuscule &#8216;harms&#8217; divorced from any comparative context, allowing them to be absurdly exaggerated.</p>
<p>Typically these intrinsically biased studies are done by competent researchers who use tell-tale terms like &#8216;linked to&#8217; and &#8216;may be&#8217;, and usually finish with a call for further research [funding] on the subject.</p>
<p>A good example is the mass of data purporting to show the great harms of MDMA (ecstasy), compared with statistical comparisons that show the substance to be ten times safer than peanuts, or about a dangerous as taking an international flight.</p>
<p>This use of science to support an agenda reduces my faith in &#8216;Science&#8217; dramatically and patently fails to convince drug-users to stop using as the official discourse bears little relation to their life experience.</p>
<p>The extent to which governments and corporations &#8216;buy&#8217; scientific outcomes is one of the more serious challenges to the integrity of science,  damaging its effectiveness and credibility.</p>
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		<title>By: Should we treat our health more like car repair? &#171; Simon Waters</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-34347</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Should we treat our health more like car repair? &#171; Simon Waters]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 04 Jul 2010 13:52:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-34347</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Inspired whilst reading: Cialdini and Consistency: Why This Might Influence Trust in CAM [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Inspired whilst reading: Cialdini and Consistency: Why This Might Influence Trust in CAM [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Alternative Medicine: Weapons of Influence &#171; jdc325&#39;s Weblog</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-21140</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Alternative Medicine: Weapons of Influence &#171; jdc325&#39;s Weblog]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:11:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-21140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Watch have previously written about Cialdini and consistency and why this might influence trust in CAM. The Mind Hacks blog has a post about the book and they [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Watch have previously written about Cialdini and consistency and why this might influence trust in CAM. The Mind Hacks blog has a post about the book and they [...]</p>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-10371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 13 Jul 2008 12:35:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-10371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m almost on-topic with this comment.
Cialdini featured in Oliver Burkeman&#039;s column this Saturday (it&#039;s the page I turn to after I&#039;ve read Bad Science and Charlie Brooker). I found this quite woo-relevant:
&lt;blockquote&gt;studies suggest that after placing a bet on a horse, most people are more confident than before about its prospects. What&#039;s changed is that they&#039;ve invested - financially, but also psychologically, since a victory for the horse would be consistent with the decision to make the bet.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

As a bonus, I&#039;ve learnt two new phrases - &#039;incremental commitment&#039; and &#039;compliance professional&#039;. &lt;a href=&quot;http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/wellbeing/story/0,,2290288,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Burkeman&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m almost on-topic with this comment.<br />
Cialdini featured in Oliver Burkeman&#8217;s column this Saturday (it&#8217;s the page I turn to after I&#8217;ve read Bad Science and Charlie Brooker). I found this quite woo-relevant:</p>
<blockquote><p>studies suggest that after placing a bet on a horse, most people are more confident than before about its prospects. What&#8217;s changed is that they&#8217;ve invested &#8211; financially, but also psychologically, since a victory for the horse would be consistent with the decision to make the bet.</p></blockquote>
<p>As a bonus, I&#8217;ve learnt two new phrases &#8211; &#8216;incremental commitment&#8217; and &#8216;compliance professional&#8217;. <a href="http://lifeandhealth.guardian.co.uk/wellbeing/story/0,,2290288,00.html" rel="nofollow">Burkeman</a></p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-10285</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 20:15:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-10285</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I&#039;m reminded by this discussion of something I saw on the AAAAI&#039;s &#039;Ask the Expert&#039; page, where a paediatric allergist described his difficulties in trying to do his best for a child whose parents were Kinesiology enthusiasts - 

http://www.aaaai.org/aadmc/ate/category.asp?cat=1161

A couple of months ago, we stayed with relatives, one of whom is a recently retired consultant doctor,  a good deal of whose patients had chronic GI conditions. He would, I think, echo Dr Gorski : simply condemning dubious alternative practices tended to be counter productive and damaging to the therapeutic relationship. This was particularly true of cases where diagnoses had been missed or mistaken and consequently referrals delayed, with the patient suffering sometimes years of ill-health,  by the time he got to see him. All he felt he could do was give his honest opinion of the state of the evidence for whatever CAM modality his patient might be drawn to and make the kind of request described in the quote from&#039;overshoot&#039; above. I think many doctors find themselves in a similar position: they don&#039;t want to risk alienating patients for whom they have a duty of care, patients who, sometimes justifiably, feel their health problems have not been taken seriously for too long. And, if they do attack dubious therapies, the water is soon muddied by shrill accusations of &#039;vested interests&#039;, big pharma conspiracy, iatrogenic harm etc etc.

I cherish a (fond?) hope that the recent publication of critical assessments of CAM and their coverage in the mainstream media might encourage a more rational, critical and less credulous attitude on the part of us &#039;consumers&#039;. Though the worry is that this is a passing fad in MSM. Blogs such as yours  are hugely helpful in helping us to educate ourselves about evidence in health matters, just a pity more of it doesn&#039;t reach mainstream media.  Patient groups, I think, also have a vital responsibility to educate their members about evidence and the importance of a critical attitude to health claims.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m reminded by this discussion of something I saw on the AAAAI&#8217;s &#8216;Ask the Expert&#8217; page, where a paediatric allergist described his difficulties in trying to do his best for a child whose parents were Kinesiology enthusiasts &#8211; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.aaaai.org/aadmc/ate/category.asp?cat=1161" rel="nofollow">http://www.aaaai.org/aadmc/ate/category.asp?cat=1161</a></p>
<p>A couple of months ago, we stayed with relatives, one of whom is a recently retired consultant doctor,  a good deal of whose patients had chronic GI conditions. He would, I think, echo Dr Gorski : simply condemning dubious alternative practices tended to be counter productive and damaging to the therapeutic relationship. This was particularly true of cases where diagnoses had been missed or mistaken and consequently referrals delayed, with the patient suffering sometimes years of ill-health,  by the time he got to see him. All he felt he could do was give his honest opinion of the state of the evidence for whatever CAM modality his patient might be drawn to and make the kind of request described in the quote from&#8217;overshoot&#8217; above. I think many doctors find themselves in a similar position: they don&#8217;t want to risk alienating patients for whom they have a duty of care, patients who, sometimes justifiably, feel their health problems have not been taken seriously for too long. And, if they do attack dubious therapies, the water is soon muddied by shrill accusations of &#8216;vested interests&#8217;, big pharma conspiracy, iatrogenic harm etc etc.</p>
<p>I cherish a (fond?) hope that the recent publication of critical assessments of CAM and their coverage in the mainstream media might encourage a more rational, critical and less credulous attitude on the part of us &#8216;consumers&#8217;. Though the worry is that this is a passing fad in MSM. Blogs such as yours  are hugely helpful in helping us to educate ourselves about evidence in health matters, just a pity more of it doesn&#8217;t reach mainstream media.  Patient groups, I think, also have a vital responsibility to educate their members about evidence and the importance of a critical attitude to health claims.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Wellcome</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-10277</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Wellcome]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 17:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-10277</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Ariely  and Cialdini have left me thinking that I have no idea what I&#039;m doing or what is influencing me to do what I am doing. But awareness of that has to be good, right?

It also makes me think that there are times and circumstances when we wish to be deceived ( a quotation with lots of attributions). Trying to pretend that we have more control over our lives and events than we actually do might be one of them.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ariely  and Cialdini have left me thinking that I have no idea what I&#8217;m doing or what is influencing me to do what I am doing. But awareness of that has to be good, right?</p>
<p>It also makes me think that there are times and circumstances when we wish to be deceived ( a quotation with lots of attributions). Trying to pretend that we have more control over our lives and events than we actually do might be one of them.</p>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/08/cialdini-and-consistency-why-this-might-influence-trust-in-cam/comment-page-1/#comment-10273</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 15:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=508#comment-10273</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I wonder if Dan Ariely&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.radioopensource.org/dan-ariely-confronting-irrationality/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;work on irrationality&lt;/a&gt; is also relevant here?  In particular, his argument (in a different context) that &quot;It turns out that the bigger and more effortful thing that you have done – the more attached you feel to it. Partially it’s regret. If we have invested $400 billion dollars and we will just leave it as it is and we haven’t achieved anything, we will feel like it’s a real waste. So what do we do? We keep on investing more and more in the hope that it will achieve something in the future.&quot;

Perhaps this also applies if one has invested considerable time, money, and sometimes discomfort in &#039;alternative&#039; medicine?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder if Dan Ariely&#8217;s <a href="http://www.radioopensource.org/dan-ariely-confronting-irrationality/" rel="nofollow">work on irrationality</a> is also relevant here?  In particular, his argument (in a different context) that &#8220;It turns out that the bigger and more effortful thing that you have done – the more attached you feel to it. Partially it’s regret. If we have invested $400 billion dollars and we will just leave it as it is and we haven’t achieved anything, we will feel like it’s a real waste. So what do we do? We keep on investing more and more in the hope that it will achieve something in the future.&#8221;</p>
<p>Perhaps this also applies if one has invested considerable time, money, and sometimes discomfort in &#8216;alternative&#8217; medicine?</p>
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