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	<title>Comments on: Which?, YorkTest and Cambridge Nutritional Sciences Ltd</title>
	<atom:link href="http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-3/#comment-31253</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Apr 2010 23:05:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-31253</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suzanne - a good first step would be to discuss this with your GP and/or ask for a referral to a dietitian or allergist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suzanne &#8211; a good first step would be to discuss this with your GP and/or ask for a referral to a dietitian or allergist.</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne Rke</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-3/#comment-31192</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suzanne Rke]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Apr 2010 22:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-31192</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I just got my York Test results today, and now having read this feel quite depressed and upset that I may have been so naive. I was desperate to sort out the problems I&#039;ve been having though and it seemed so legitimate. I feel like I want to get my money back now as it&#039;s £265 on something which is basically useless. I wonder if this would be possible...seems unlikely :(]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just got my York Test results today, and now having read this feel quite depressed and upset that I may have been so naive. I was desperate to sort out the problems I&#8217;ve been having though and it seemed so legitimate. I feel like I want to get my money back now as it&#8217;s £265 on something which is basically useless. I wonder if this would be possible&#8230;seems unlikely :(</p>
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		<title>By: Suspicious of Allergy UK</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-1/#comment-17979</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Suspicious of Allergy UK]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Mar 2009 21:56:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-17979</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I am keen to contribute some ammunition to any review of the links between YorkTestand Allergy UK.  I&#039;d be very grateful if you&#039;d put me in touch with the relevant person(s).

I think there may be grounds for a complaint to The Charity Commission about Allergy UK&#039;s behaviour and governance. 

Thanks]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am keen to contribute some ammunition to any review of the links between YorkTestand Allergy UK.  I&#8217;d be very grateful if you&#8217;d put me in touch with the relevant person(s).</p>
<p>I think there may be grounds for a complaint to The Charity Commission about Allergy UK&#8217;s behaviour and governance. </p>
<p>Thanks</p>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11743</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 11:12:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11743</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Suttope - that&#039;s interesting to hear, and sorry that you have been having these problems.  Did the dietician recommend an IgG test to you?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Suttope &#8211; that&#8217;s interesting to hear, and sorry that you have been having these problems.  Did the dietician recommend an IgG test to you?</p>
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		<title>By: suttope</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11740</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[suttope]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 08:29:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11740</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hi

Just thought I&#039;d throw this in - I&#039;ve just had one of these tests which said I&#039;m intolerant to yeast, wheat, cow&#039;s milk and soya - so I thought I was screwed, but if all its saying is that this is the food I&#039;ve eaten then blimey I&#039;m glad to have come across this site, pity it wasn&#039;t before the dietician recommended the test!
Just to say though, the reason I visited the dietician is that my GP basically said that it was all in my mind when I asked for help on what I believe to be food intolerance symptoms. I had experimented with cutting out diary, which seems to make me itchy and give me bowel problems but wanted a second opinion/test to confirm.
Just wonder where I should turn now....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi</p>
<p>Just thought I&#8217;d throw this in &#8211; I&#8217;ve just had one of these tests which said I&#8217;m intolerant to yeast, wheat, cow&#8217;s milk and soya &#8211; so I thought I was screwed, but if all its saying is that this is the food I&#8217;ve eaten then blimey I&#8217;m glad to have come across this site, pity it wasn&#8217;t before the dietician recommended the test!<br />
Just to say though, the reason I visited the dietician is that my GP basically said that it was all in my mind when I asked for help on what I believe to be food intolerance symptoms. I had experimented with cutting out diary, which seems to make me itchy and give me bowel problems but wanted a second opinion/test to confirm.<br />
Just wonder where I should turn now&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: draust</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11462</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[draust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Aug 2008 11:17:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11462</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I shall watch out for the hen&#039;s teeth and flying pigs... 

No, nice to see that some people are honest enough to admit when they were wrong.

Re. the previous discussion on the doctors and &quot;Alt tests&quot;, I probably over-stated the extent to which the docs lets the stuff go. There are certainly a fair number who are unequivocal about telling the patients when they think something is nonsense.  Of course, there is some evidence that once the patient knows the doctor feels that way, they just carry on and don&#039;t tell the doctor.

On the whole, medics are pragmatists, and tend to worry  more about Alt.Therapies that (i) carry potential for damage; or (ii) cost a load of dosh. If patients are absolutely determined to try aromatherapy or homeopathy, and even explaining the lack of evidence doesn&#039;t dissuade them, Mrs Dr Aust usually tells them that one of our local should-be-ashamed Universities runs a &quot;student complementary medicine clinic&quot; where you can see a student training as a therapist for about a tenner. That way, Mrs Dr Aust reasons, the patient at least won&#039;t get fleeced.

Hundreds of ££ for nonsense food intolerance tests, of course, would be a different kettle of fish.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shall watch out for the hen&#8217;s teeth and flying pigs&#8230; </p>
<p>No, nice to see that some people are honest enough to admit when they were wrong.</p>
<p>Re. the previous discussion on the doctors and &#8220;Alt tests&#8221;, I probably over-stated the extent to which the docs lets the stuff go. There are certainly a fair number who are unequivocal about telling the patients when they think something is nonsense.  Of course, there is some evidence that once the patient knows the doctor feels that way, they just carry on and don&#8217;t tell the doctor.</p>
<p>On the whole, medics are pragmatists, and tend to worry  more about Alt.Therapies that (i) carry potential for damage; or (ii) cost a load of dosh. If patients are absolutely determined to try aromatherapy or homeopathy, and even explaining the lack of evidence doesn&#8217;t dissuade them, Mrs Dr Aust usually tells them that one of our local should-be-ashamed Universities runs a &#8220;student complementary medicine clinic&#8221; where you can see a student training as a therapist for about a tenner. That way, Mrs Dr Aust reasons, the patient at least won&#8217;t get fleeced.</p>
<p>Hundreds of ££ for nonsense food intolerance tests, of course, would be a different kettle of fish.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11447</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 23:59:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11447</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr Aust wrote:
&lt;blockquote&gt;It is also another of those “err.. consider that the experts might perhaps know more than you?” issues.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;a href=&quot;http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&lt;i&gt;Climate Progress&lt;/i&gt; comments on the retraction of a mistaken interpretation of data by a climate change dissenter&lt;/a&gt;.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Unless you are a denier, you may not be surprised to learn the amateur denier was wrong and the country’s leading cryosphere scientists were right. But you might be surprised that Goddard issued an unequivocal retraction...
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I thought that you might appreciate that, Dr Aust - it does happen.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Aust wrote:</p>
<blockquote><p>It is also another of those “err.. consider that the experts might perhaps know more than you?” issues.
</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://climateprogress.org/2008/08/25/a-new-olympic-record-for-retraction-of-a-denier-talking-point/" rel="nofollow"><i>Climate Progress</i> comments on the retraction of a mistaken interpretation of data by a climate change dissenter</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>Unless you are a denier, you may not be surprised to learn the amateur denier was wrong and the country’s leading cryosphere scientists were right. But you might be surprised that Goddard issued an unequivocal retraction&#8230;
</p></blockquote>
<p>I thought that you might appreciate that, Dr Aust &#8211; it does happen.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 22:32:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Dr Aust, it is difficult. My impression is that there are comparatively few people who don&#039;t accept the existence of adverse reactions to some foodstuffs, food intolerance or hypersensitivities, however they should be designated. It&#039;s just that no matter how much people wish that a good test with a plausible biological mechanism as its foundation, with good specificity and sensitivity exists for food intolerance, it really doesn&#039;t seem as if one exists as yet. YorkTest, Cambridge Nutritional Sciences and Allergy UK might wish otherwise and offer their test as a better than nothing but that doesn&#039;t make it so. (It&#039;s a different universe of gravity, but the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/health/26ovar.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;desperate need for a good test for ovarian cancer&lt;/a&gt; doesn&#039;t mean that any test will do.)

So, when it comes to food intolerance, the NHS is not meeting a very large need and simultaneously may be spending a huge amount of money on unsuccessful strategies to meet that need.
&lt;blockquote&gt;would not bang on about “you’re wasting your money and this is pure quackery designed to take advantage of you” if the patient were determined to try it.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I understand that attitude but...if patients can&#039;t rely on their GPs or Practice Nurses to tell them when they might be pursuing a diet that is unworkable in the long-term or will tie them into a dependence on supplements or regular testing and re-testing, then where are patients supposed to obtain that advice? This scenario is bad enough if it only involves autonomous adults, but FFTB and others encourage parents to use these tests for children. afaik, YorkTest does not have a specialised paediatric dietitian on tap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Aust, it is difficult. My impression is that there are comparatively few people who don&#8217;t accept the existence of adverse reactions to some foodstuffs, food intolerance or hypersensitivities, however they should be designated. It&#8217;s just that no matter how much people wish that a good test with a plausible biological mechanism as its foundation, with good specificity and sensitivity exists for food intolerance, it really doesn&#8217;t seem as if one exists as yet. YorkTest, Cambridge Nutritional Sciences and Allergy UK might wish otherwise and offer their test as a better than nothing but that doesn&#8217;t make it so. (It&#8217;s a different universe of gravity, but the <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/26/health/26ovar.html" rel="nofollow">desperate need for a good test for ovarian cancer</a> doesn&#8217;t mean that any test will do.)</p>
<p>So, when it comes to food intolerance, the NHS is not meeting a very large need and simultaneously may be spending a huge amount of money on unsuccessful strategies to meet that need.</p>
<blockquote><p>would not bang on about “you’re wasting your money and this is pure quackery designed to take advantage of you” if the patient were determined to try it.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I understand that attitude but&#8230;if patients can&#8217;t rely on their GPs or Practice Nurses to tell them when they might be pursuing a diet that is unworkable in the long-term or will tie them into a dependence on supplements or regular testing and re-testing, then where are patients supposed to obtain that advice? This scenario is bad enough if it only involves autonomous adults, but FFTB and others encourage parents to use these tests for children. afaik, YorkTest does not have a specialised paediatric dietitian on tap.</p>
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		<title>By: You and Yours on Which? Investigation into Food Intolerance Tests &#171; Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11429</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[You and Yours on Which? Investigation into Food Intolerance Tests &#171; Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 21:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11429</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] intolerance. Walker mentioned the papers with which regular readers are already familiar (listed here: IBS, migraine) to which the interviewer responded, &#8220;So, you&#8217;re saying that your test [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] intolerance. Walker mentioned the papers with which regular readers are already familiar (listed here: IBS, migraine) to which the interviewer responded, &#8220;So, you&#8217;re saying that your test [...]</p>
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		<title>By: draust</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/08/21/which-yorktest-and-cambridge-nutritional-sciences-ltd/comment-page-2/#comment-11424</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[draust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 20:16:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1177#comment-11424</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think the public statements of gastroenterologists like Whorwell who deal with IBS patients,  and perhaps of some of the allergy/intolerance folk, contain a good bit of the standpoint &quot;don&#039;t let&#039;s lose the patients&quot;. That is, if the doctor tells the patient &quot;sorry mate, you clearly don&#039;t have a food intolerance, and no test will show that you do&quot;, and the patient is convinced that they do, then the patient disappears out the door fuming... at which point, the chance of encouraging the patient to take the evidence-based measures that actually might help with their symptoms is gone. Put another way, preserving doctor-patient dialogue is usually not helped by the patient thinking his/her doctor is calling him/her a nutter - see IBS, ME/CFS, &quot;electrosensitivity&quot; etc etc.  

For a lot of clinicians, I think the key argument is  less  around &quot;what things patients might do off their own bat as part of trying to get to grips with their problem&quot;, and far &lt;b&gt;more&lt;/b&gt; around &quot;what the NHS would / should endorse and make available&quot; - the latter being things that should be borne out by the best available evidence.

 As you say, if AUK really start lobbying hard for the IgG tests on the NHS, I suspect that would probably be a line-in-the-sand moment for a lot of the doctors.

Another line a lot of them draw is &quot;I will not lie to the patients&quot;. Thus many would tell a patient &quot;there is no scientific evidence to back up the IgG test&quot;, but would not bang on about &quot;you&#039;re wasting your money and this is pure quackery designed to take advantage of you&quot; if the patient were determined to try it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the public statements of gastroenterologists like Whorwell who deal with IBS patients,  and perhaps of some of the allergy/intolerance folk, contain a good bit of the standpoint &#8220;don&#8217;t let&#8217;s lose the patients&#8221;. That is, if the doctor tells the patient &#8220;sorry mate, you clearly don&#8217;t have a food intolerance, and no test will show that you do&#8221;, and the patient is convinced that they do, then the patient disappears out the door fuming&#8230; at which point, the chance of encouraging the patient to take the evidence-based measures that actually might help with their symptoms is gone. Put another way, preserving doctor-patient dialogue is usually not helped by the patient thinking his/her doctor is calling him/her a nutter &#8211; see IBS, ME/CFS, &#8220;electrosensitivity&#8221; etc etc.  </p>
<p>For a lot of clinicians, I think the key argument is  less  around &#8220;what things patients might do off their own bat as part of trying to get to grips with their problem&#8221;, and far <b>more</b> around &#8220;what the NHS would / should endorse and make available&#8221; &#8211; the latter being things that should be borne out by the best available evidence.</p>
<p> As you say, if AUK really start lobbying hard for the IgG tests on the NHS, I suspect that would probably be a line-in-the-sand moment for a lot of the doctors.</p>
<p>Another line a lot of them draw is &#8220;I will not lie to the patients&#8221;. Thus many would tell a patient &#8220;there is no scientific evidence to back up the IgG test&#8221;, but would not bang on about &#8220;you&#8217;re wasting your money and this is pure quackery designed to take advantage of you&#8221; if the patient were determined to try it.</p>
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