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	<title>Comments on: The Durham Fish Oil Zombie Rises Again</title>
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	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13271</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 15:56:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-13271</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure - there&#039;s some interesting research around fish oil, and more good quality research would be valuable.  That just makes some of the poor research and overblown marketing we&#039;ve seen even less excusable, though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure &#8211; there&#8217;s some interesting research around fish oil, and more good quality research would be valuable.  That just makes some of the poor research and overblown marketing we&#8217;ve seen even less excusable, though.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13268</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:57:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-13268</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote&gt;Bad science does not mean that fish oil may not be beneficial to some children, only that it is not proven.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Few people would argue otherwise. However, it is not established that it is and before recommending something as a therapeutic intervention, it should be assessed not only for clinical efficacy but for real world practicality.

Yes - there is a strong need for trials. Until such time as those trials are done, there should not be misleading information on fish oil advertising, and parents should be fully informed as to the state of the clinical evidence.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Bad science does not mean that fish oil may not be beneficial to some children, only that it is not proven.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Few people would argue otherwise. However, it is not established that it is and before recommending something as a therapeutic intervention, it should be assessed not only for clinical efficacy but for real world practicality.</p>
<p>Yes &#8211; there is a strong need for trials. Until such time as those trials are done, there should not be misleading information on fish oil advertising, and parents should be fully informed as to the state of the clinical evidence.</p>
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		<title>By: Wendy</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-13267</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wendy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 12:35:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-13267</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Like Beckan I have observed a considerable difference in a child with dyspraxic characteristics after taking a fish oil supplement. I would like to see good quality trials conducted to see if this helps children more generally or if it was a random change, coincidentally at the time they were given fish oil.  

Bad science does not mean that fish oil may not be beneficial to some children, only that it is not proven.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Like Beckan I have observed a considerable difference in a child with dyspraxic characteristics after taking a fish oil supplement. I would like to see good quality trials conducted to see if this helps children more generally or if it was a random change, coincidentally at the time they were given fish oil.  </p>
<p>Bad science does not mean that fish oil may not be beneficial to some children, only that it is not proven.</p>
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		<title>By: Beckan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12586</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Beckan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Oct 2008 08:22:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12586</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think that you all need some bottles of Omega3! It makes you think better! ;)

I belive in facts! I belive in what I can see with my own eyes!

My son - 5 years - hav got a NEW LIFE thanks to Omega3 and EyeQ! 
He is NOT the only one! Lot&#039;s of parents in Sweden have noticed remarkable effekts on their children. 
My son has ADHD. Children&#039;s with ADHD, Aspergers, Tourettes and Autism CAN get a &quot;new life&quot; thanks to EyeQ (omega3)!

I say: MORE OMEGA3 to the people! If you cares for your children: give him Omega3! 

sorry for my bad english!

Beckan in Sweden]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you all need some bottles of Omega3! It makes you think better! ;)</p>
<p>I belive in facts! I belive in what I can see with my own eyes!</p>
<p>My son &#8211; 5 years &#8211; hav got a NEW LIFE thanks to Omega3 and EyeQ!<br />
He is NOT the only one! Lot&#8217;s of parents in Sweden have noticed remarkable effekts on their children.<br />
My son has ADHD. Children&#8217;s with ADHD, Aspergers, Tourettes and Autism CAN get a &#8220;new life&#8221; thanks to EyeQ (omega3)!</p>
<p>I say: MORE OMEGA3 to the people! If you cares for your children: give him Omega3! </p>
<p>sorry for my bad english!</p>
<p>Beckan in Sweden</p>
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		<title>By: Durham choosing how to measure success in their fish oil (non)trial: third time lucky? &#171; Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12371</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Durham choosing how to measure success in their fish oil (non)trial: third time lucky? &#171; Holford Watch: Patrick Holford, nutritionism and bad science]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 17:30:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] me, that sounds rather different. Then, to make matters worse (as we have already noted) Durham eventually chose to measure how fish oil takers compared with &#8216;matched pairs&#8217; [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] me, that sounds rather different. Then, to make matters worse (as we have already noted) Durham eventually chose to measure how fish oil takers compared with &#8216;matched pairs&#8217; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anon, for obvious reasons</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12306</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anon, for obvious reasons]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:30:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12306</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I work in one of the schools which &#039;participated&#039; in the trial/study/initiative.  

The pupils had the bottles of fish oils doled out to them at intervals and were expected to take them at home.  We didn&#039;t monitor compliance. We have absolutely no way of knowing which pupils actually took them and which didn&#039;t, nor am I aware of any follow up (pupil questionnaires, etc.) to monitor compliance.  

The school prefers to think that our good  GCSE results were a result of good teaching; and, indeed, our results have continued to improve in subsequent years without the &#039;benefit&#039; of fish oils.

I would like to see the details of the study/trial/initiative.

The whole affair is very fishy...

(Sorry...)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in one of the schools which &#8216;participated&#8217; in the trial/study/initiative.  </p>
<p>The pupils had the bottles of fish oils doled out to them at intervals and were expected to take them at home.  We didn&#8217;t monitor compliance. We have absolutely no way of knowing which pupils actually took them and which didn&#8217;t, nor am I aware of any follow up (pupil questionnaires, etc.) to monitor compliance.  </p>
<p>The school prefers to think that our good  GCSE results were a result of good teaching; and, indeed, our results have continued to improve in subsequent years without the &#8216;benefit&#8217; of fish oils.</p>
<p>I would like to see the details of the study/trial/initiative.</p>
<p>The whole affair is very fishy&#8230;</p>
<p>(Sorry&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12125</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12125</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see there&#039;s a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.foodforthebrain.org/content.asp?id_Content=1686&amp;id_Content_Parent_Override=1798&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;raffle&lt;/a&gt; with &quot;healthy&quot; prizes...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see there&#8217;s a <a href="http://www.foodforthebrain.org/content.asp?id_Content=1686&amp;id_Content_Parent_Override=1798" rel="nofollow">raffle</a> with &#8220;healthy&#8221; prizes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12123</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12123</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Dr Aust, on the question of supporters, backers etc., it is particularly irritating to see charities such as &lt;i&gt;Allergy UK&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i&gt;Mental Health Foundation&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i&gt;Mind&lt;/i&gt; listed among the credulous.

Then again, I feel that way about some of the speakers.

If any journalists have been offered freebie tickets - it would be interesting to read what they make of it. I would expect some of the academics to give appropriately nuanced interpretations of the state of the art and their findings. I would expect other, less qualified, speakers and enthusiasts to display no such reticence and to over-claim hopelessly. It would be interesting to see if the other speakers have any qualms about that.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dr Aust, on the question of supporters, backers etc., it is particularly irritating to see charities such as <i>Allergy UK</i>, <i>Mental Health Foundation</i> and <i>Mind</i> listed among the credulous.</p>
<p>Then again, I feel that way about some of the speakers.</p>
<p>If any journalists have been offered freebie tickets &#8211; it would be interesting to read what they make of it. I would expect some of the academics to give appropriately nuanced interpretations of the state of the art and their findings. I would expect other, less qualified, speakers and enthusiasts to display no such reticence and to over-claim hopelessly. It would be interesting to see if the other speakers have any qualms about that.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12122</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12122</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Dr Aust, jdc - at some point I expect the story about the professorship to be transformed into some amazing account that either proves censorship or something that redounds to Holford&#039;s integrity.

@Lee - I don&#039;t know when, but at some point I will finish researching my history of fish oil and unleash it upon the world. Suffice it to say that in addition to the rich folkloric history of fish oils, the first &#039;hospital&#039; trial of it for a specific disorder was conducted in Manchester in 1705 (so far, the earliest that I&#039;ve found). For all sorts of unbelievably interesting reasons that tumble across the history of science, politics, fortunes of war, scientific cul de sacs, the treatment of the first formally-qualified female research academics, the history of fish-oil research has been remarkably tendentious - and 300 years on there is no change in that.

Oddly enough fish oil - as what we would call a nutritional supplement - has been available in the UK for hundreds of years.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dr Aust, jdc &#8211; at some point I expect the story about the professorship to be transformed into some amazing account that either proves censorship or something that redounds to Holford&#8217;s integrity.</p>
<p>@Lee &#8211; I don&#8217;t know when, but at some point I will finish researching my history of fish oil and unleash it upon the world. Suffice it to say that in addition to the rich folkloric history of fish oils, the first &#8216;hospital&#8217; trial of it for a specific disorder was conducted in Manchester in 1705 (so far, the earliest that I&#8217;ve found). For all sorts of unbelievably interesting reasons that tumble across the history of science, politics, fortunes of war, scientific cul de sacs, the treatment of the first formally-qualified female research academics, the history of fish-oil research has been remarkably tendentious &#8211; and 300 years on there is no change in that.</p>
<p>Oddly enough fish oil &#8211; as what we would call a nutritional supplement &#8211; has been available in the UK for hundreds of years.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/09/25/the-durham-fish-oil-zombie-rises-again/comment-page-1/#comment-12119</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:20:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1567#comment-12119</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Frank Spencer - the annoying thing is that we simply don&#039;t know. We know about the schools that agreed to participate in the initiative and some of the individuals but we are in the dark as to some very important detail. For instance, others may, but I know nothing about the demographics of how many children in the relevant schools are vegetarian (maybe for faith/cultural reasons) and would therefore not participate in the trial and might be less likely to read the literature. (The over-hyped &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/2377279.oil_linked_to_better_behaviour_at_school/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Lever Park School study in Greater Manchester&lt;/a&gt; did use a flax oil formula for their Omega 3 supplementation.)

And yes - it is entirely possible that using matched pairs in the scenario that you outline would reduce the effect size. Again, because of the lack of detail, we simply don&#039;t know.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Frank Spencer &#8211; the annoying thing is that we simply don&#8217;t know. We know about the schools that agreed to participate in the initiative and some of the individuals but we are in the dark as to some very important detail. For instance, others may, but I know nothing about the demographics of how many children in the relevant schools are vegetarian (maybe for faith/cultural reasons) and would therefore not participate in the trial and might be less likely to read the literature. (The over-hyped <a href="http://www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/2377279.oil_linked_to_better_behaviour_at_school/" rel="nofollow">Lever Park School study in Greater Manchester</a> did use a flax oil formula for their Omega 3 supplementation.)</p>
<p>And yes &#8211; it is entirely possible that using matched pairs in the scenario that you outline would reduce the effect size. Again, because of the lack of detail, we simply don&#8217;t know.</p>
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