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	<title>Comments on: Do Health Journalists Have Any Responsibility to Be Sensible: Looking at the Daily Mail</title>
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	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: Chloe</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-15893</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Chloe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2009 04:04:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-15893</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do Health Journalists Have Any Responsibility to Be Sensible?

I ask.... does the reader have ability to use logic, apply discretion?

This is a good critique. I have just found out about Spearole tea (www.drred.com.au) as it was on a national news bulletin last night in Australia.

I have found that every journalist on the planet quoted the SAME quote

and EVERY journalist on the planet (except Aussie journos) got the name of the university wrong.  They all incorrectly write Queensland University, when there is no such beast ... it is The University Of Queensland.

So as you can see, EVERY journalist is exposed as a fraud and plagerist and incompetant, as they don&#039;t even check basic facts...simply do the &#039;copy paste&#039;. Every Editor of these newspapers should be contacted about the inferior quality their journalists perpertrate.

So we all know the studies on Green Tea and immune system, to fight cancer, aids, and even Stroke [http://tinyurl.com/cvutrr]  etc...

But on weightloss I did find that;
 
CHICAGO STUDY with GREEN TEA
1. In 2000 The Univesity of Chicago released study results that Green Tea may help weight loss, but issued warning
-  Shutsang Liao: That&#039;s a lot of tea
http://magazine.uchicago.edu/0006/research/research-print.html
Scientists at the U of C&#039;s Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research have found that a major chemical component of green tea may lead to weight loss.

In laboratory studies, rats injected with epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) derived from green tea leaves lost their appetites and consumed up to 60 percent less food after seven days of daily injections, losing as much as 21 percent of their body weight.

Writing in the March issue of Endocrinology, biochemistry &amp; molecular biology professor Shutsung Liao, PhD&#039;61, and colleagues noted that it is unclear exactly how EGCG controls appetite and body weight. Liao warns that the diet should not be tried at home: to achieve the same results, a human would have to drink green tea almost constantly. Moreover, he adds, some of the hormonal changes observed in the rats could have negative effects in humans, especially in younger people.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do Health Journalists Have Any Responsibility to Be Sensible?</p>
<p>I ask&#8230;. does the reader have ability to use logic, apply discretion?</p>
<p>This is a good critique. I have just found out about Spearole tea (www.drred.com.au) as it was on a national news bulletin last night in Australia.</p>
<p>I have found that every journalist on the planet quoted the SAME quote</p>
<p>and EVERY journalist on the planet (except Aussie journos) got the name of the university wrong.  They all incorrectly write Queensland University, when there is no such beast &#8230; it is The University Of Queensland.</p>
<p>So as you can see, EVERY journalist is exposed as a fraud and plagerist and incompetant, as they don&#8217;t even check basic facts&#8230;simply do the &#8216;copy paste&#8217;. Every Editor of these newspapers should be contacted about the inferior quality their journalists perpertrate.</p>
<p>So we all know the studies on Green Tea and immune system, to fight cancer, aids, and even Stroke [http://tinyurl.com/cvutrr]  etc&#8230;</p>
<p>But on weightloss I did find that;</p>
<p>CHICAGO STUDY with GREEN TEA<br />
1. In 2000 The Univesity of Chicago released study results that Green Tea may help weight loss, but issued warning<br />
-  Shutsang Liao: That&#8217;s a lot of tea<br />
<a href="http://magazine.uchicago.edu/0006/research/research-print.html" rel="nofollow">http://magazine.uchicago.edu/0006/research/research-print.html</a><br />
Scientists at the U of C&#8217;s Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research have found that a major chemical component of green tea may lead to weight loss.</p>
<p>In laboratory studies, rats injected with epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) derived from green tea leaves lost their appetites and consumed up to 60 percent less food after seven days of daily injections, losing as much as 21 percent of their body weight.</p>
<p>Writing in the March issue of Endocrinology, biochemistry &amp; molecular biology professor Shutsung Liao, PhD&#8217;61, and colleagues noted that it is unclear exactly how EGCG controls appetite and body weight. Liao warns that the diet should not be tried at home: to achieve the same results, a human would have to drink green tea almost constantly. Moreover, he adds, some of the hormonal changes observed in the rats could have negative effects in humans, especially in younger people.</p>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13320</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 09:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13320</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[dvnutrix - thanks for the scienceblogs link, it wasn&#039;t one I&#039;d seen. Interested to see Feynman referred to by some in the comments that follow. I always remember this from his Caltech address:
&lt;blockquote&gt;But this long history of learning how not to fool ourselves--of
having utter scientific integrity--is, I&#039;m sorry to say, something
that we haven&#039;t specifically included in any particular course that
I know of. We just hope you&#039;ve caught on by osmosis.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
He also remarks on the need for scientists to employ &quot;extra integrity&quot; when explaining something to a layman.
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cargocul.htm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;.

Re influence of media coverage: I remember reading about the way German TV dealt with nutritionists and conflicts of interest. I&#039;d seen the coverage Ben Goldacre had given Phillips et al on the Bad Science blog, but the work by Pareek &amp; Pattison showing the influence of media (especially TV) on the decision to vaccinate was new to me at the time - and worrying.

Journalists exercising due care and discretion? Yes, it would be nice. I&#039;m not overly optimistic though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dvnutrix &#8211; thanks for the scienceblogs link, it wasn&#8217;t one I&#8217;d seen. Interested to see Feynman referred to by some in the comments that follow. I always remember this from his Caltech address:</p>
<blockquote><p>But this long history of learning how not to fool ourselves&#8211;of<br />
having utter scientific integrity&#8211;is, I&#8217;m sorry to say, something<br />
that we haven&#8217;t specifically included in any particular course that<br />
I know of. We just hope you&#8217;ve caught on by osmosis.</p></blockquote>
<p>He also remarks on the need for scientists to employ &#8220;extra integrity&#8221; when explaining something to a layman.<br />
<a href="http://www.lhup.edu/~dsimanek/cargocul.htm" rel="nofollow">Link</a>.</p>
<p>Re influence of media coverage: I remember reading about the way German TV dealt with nutritionists and conflicts of interest. I&#8217;d seen the coverage Ben Goldacre had given Phillips et al on the Bad Science blog, but the work by Pareek &amp; Pattison showing the influence of media (especially TV) on the decision to vaccinate was new to me at the time &#8211; and worrying.</p>
<p>Journalists exercising due care and discretion? Yes, it would be nice. I&#8217;m not overly optimistic though.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13304</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 19:53:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13304</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[jdc, I don&#039;t know if you&#039;ve seen it but there is a thoughtful piece on what constitutes &lt;a href=&quot;http://scienceblogs.com/intersection/2008/11/educated_elites_why_science_li.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;scientific literacy and just when it should be introduced into the general education&lt;/a&gt;.

We&#039;ve had some discussion of the &lt;a href=&quot;http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/26/patrick-holford-and-other-gmtv-pundits-should-be-glad-that-they-dont-work-for-german-tv/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;influence of media coverage on health stories&lt;/a&gt; and it does seem to be considerable.

Perhaps until we have achieved Utopia and the majority of the audience for &lt;i&gt;Daily Mail&lt;/i&gt; (and other papers) would be rated as scientifically literate, then the journalists should exercise due care and discretion, particularly when writing on hot-button issues such as this one.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jdc, I don&#8217;t know if you&#8217;ve seen it but there is a thoughtful piece on what constitutes <a href="http://scienceblogs.com/intersection/2008/11/educated_elites_why_science_li.php" rel="nofollow">scientific literacy and just when it should be introduced into the general education</a>.</p>
<p>We&#8217;ve had some discussion of the <a href="http://holfordwatch.info/2008/07/26/patrick-holford-and-other-gmtv-pundits-should-be-glad-that-they-dont-work-for-german-tv/" rel="nofollow">influence of media coverage on health stories</a> and it does seem to be considerable.</p>
<p>Perhaps until we have achieved Utopia and the majority of the audience for <i>Daily Mail</i> (and other papers) would be rated as scientifically literate, then the journalists should exercise due care and discretion, particularly when writing on hot-button issues such as this one.</p>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13296</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 13:13:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13296</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A bit more on the question of whether the media have a duty to be sensible:
From the Bad Science &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.badscience.net/2008/06/chapter-1024-in-which-my-prejudices-about-journalists-are-rendered-in-quantitative-form/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt;, a &quot;systematic review from the Cochrane Collaboration found 5 studies looking at the use of specific health interventions before and after media coverage of specific stories, and each found that favorable publicity was associated with greater use, and unfavorable with lower.&quot; Abstract is on &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6WN0-4KVXHX0-3&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;view=c&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=dc6bcdb67d2363a708c24afcd3089c98&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;ScienceDirect&lt;/a&gt;.
Re the alternative: &quot;or should one repose more confidence in the commonsense of most readers?&quot; That&#039;s an interesting one [that might also remind some of the Earl of Salisbury in Shakespeare&#039;s Richard II?]. When it comes to health stories in the media, I tend to think that readers would need to be both sufficiently motivated &lt;i&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; competent enough to understand the science in order to come to a sensible conclusion (probably because I read someone else making this point somewhere and thought it made sense). 
When it comes to things that people want to hear (e.g., there&#039;s a miracle weight loss remedy that really, really works - even if you eat junk food!), I think people are too willing to suspend their disbelief and unlikely to be sceptical of the claims made.
That being the case, I&#039;d still put the onus on the media, but improving the public understanding of science wouldn&#039;t hurt.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit more on the question of whether the media have a duty to be sensible:<br />
From the Bad Science <a href="http://www.badscience.net/2008/06/chapter-1024-in-which-my-prejudices-about-journalists-are-rendered-in-quantitative-form/" rel="nofollow">blog</a>, a &#8220;systematic review from the Cochrane Collaboration found 5 studies looking at the use of specific health interventions before and after media coverage of specific stories, and each found that favorable publicity was associated with greater use, and unfavorable with lower.&#8221; Abstract is on <a href="http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&amp;_udi=B6WN0-4KVXHX0-3&amp;_user=10&amp;_rdoc=1&amp;_fmt=&amp;_orig=search&amp;_sort=d&amp;view=c&amp;_acct=C000050221&amp;_version=1&amp;_urlVersion=0&amp;_userid=10&amp;md5=dc6bcdb67d2363a708c24afcd3089c98" rel="nofollow">ScienceDirect</a>.<br />
Re the alternative: &#8220;or should one repose more confidence in the commonsense of most readers?&#8221; That&#8217;s an interesting one [that might also remind some of the Earl of Salisbury in Shakespeare's Richard II?]. When it comes to health stories in the media, I tend to think that readers would need to be both sufficiently motivated <i>and</i> competent enough to understand the science in order to come to a sensible conclusion (probably because I read someone else making this point somewhere and thought it made sense).<br />
When it comes to things that people want to hear (e.g., there&#8217;s a miracle weight loss remedy that really, really works &#8211; even if you eat junk food!), I think people are too willing to suspend their disbelief and unlikely to be sceptical of the claims made.<br />
That being the case, I&#8217;d still put the onus on the media, but improving the public understanding of science wouldn&#8217;t hurt.</p>
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		<title>By: dvnutrix</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13294</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dvnutrix]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:06:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13294</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Reference to the caffeine content of green tea is obliquely buried in the musing about whether the proposed mechanism is a raising of the metabolic rate - rather too oblique.

Didn&#039;t mention the source of funding because I was more exercised about 
*the potential for some people reading this as a recommendation for ibuprofen and weightloss
*the disconnect between the optimism of the piece and the fact that the study (so far) is in rats and hasn&#039;t been published. 
However, I should have mentioned the funding.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reference to the caffeine content of green tea is obliquely buried in the musing about whether the proposed mechanism is a raising of the metabolic rate &#8211; rather too oblique.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t mention the source of funding because I was more exercised about<br />
*the potential for some people reading this as a recommendation for ibuprofen and weightloss<br />
*the disconnect between the optimism of the piece and the fact that the study (so far) is in rats and hasn&#8217;t been published.<br />
However, I should have mentioned the funding.</p>
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		<title>By: teek</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13292</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[teek]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 10:01:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13292</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[classic - &#039;research,&#039; sponsored by the manufacturers of the tea themselves (slightly surprised you didn&#039;t mention that...!), shows that in rats this product causes weight loss. as you said, so what...?! the fact that it&#039;s unpublished is one thing, but does anyone mention the fact that green tea has caffeine so the appropriate control rats ought to have received some dosing of caffeine? considering most overweight people probably drink their fair share of caffeine, how does the &quot;three cups a day&quot; come into it - 3 cups more than you currently consume?

as for responsibility to be sensible, the answer has to be yes they do but they rarely fulfill said responsibility...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>classic &#8211; &#8216;research,&#8217; sponsored by the manufacturers of the tea themselves (slightly surprised you didn&#8217;t mention that&#8230;!), shows that in rats this product causes weight loss. as you said, so what&#8230;?! the fact that it&#8217;s unpublished is one thing, but does anyone mention the fact that green tea has caffeine so the appropriate control rats ought to have received some dosing of caffeine? considering most overweight people probably drink their fair share of caffeine, how does the &#8220;three cups a day&#8221; come into it &#8211; 3 cups more than you currently consume?</p>
<p>as for responsibility to be sensible, the answer has to be yes they do but they rarely fulfill said responsibility&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Wulfstan</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13276</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wulfstan]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:10:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13276</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[No fans of &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.amazon.co.uk/Desbarollda-Waltzing-Mouse-Noel-Langley/dp/1905946023&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Desbarollda, the Waltzing Mouse&lt;/a&gt; who might comment on the waistline issue of rodents? Much as I had heard of Ben (courtesy of Michael Jackson) and I think there are some cartoons (isn&#039;t there an Aardman one, Ratatouille?) I have never associated rats with waistlines.

If this is just about rats, no matter how good the animal model, this can&#039;t be ready to publicise.

It is irresponsible to mention ibuprofen without all the warnings about associated gastric or other side-effects. 

It would be good to see Health News Review or Behind the Headlines pick up on this story.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No fans of <a href="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Desbarollda-Waltzing-Mouse-Noel-Langley/dp/1905946023" rel="nofollow">Desbarollda, the Waltzing Mouse</a> who might comment on the waistline issue of rodents? Much as I had heard of Ben (courtesy of Michael Jackson) and I think there are some cartoons (isn&#8217;t there an Aardman one, Ratatouille?) I have never associated rats with waistlines.</p>
<p>If this is just about rats, no matter how good the animal model, this can&#8217;t be ready to publicise.</p>
<p>It is irresponsible to mention ibuprofen without all the warnings about associated gastric or other side-effects. </p>
<p>It would be good to see Health News Review or Behind the Headlines pick up on this story.</p>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13275</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:53:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13275</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do Health Journalists Have Any Responsibility to Be Sensible? 
Personal opinion: I think so. Some people [a significant number, as far as I can tell] make decisions based on what they read in the newspapers. One example: MMR uptake went from around 90-95% down to around 75% following the media&#039;s MMR hoax.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do Health Journalists Have Any Responsibility to Be Sensible?<br />
Personal opinion: I think so. Some people [a significant number, as far as I can tell] make decisions based on what they read in the newspapers. One example: MMR uptake went from around 90-95% down to around 75% following the media&#8217;s MMR hoax.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2008/11/19/do-health-journalists-have-any-responsibility-to-be-sensible-looking-at-the-daily-mail/comment-page-1/#comment-13272</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.wordpress.com/?p=1855#comment-13272</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do rats even have waistlines?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do rats even have waistlines?</p>
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