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	<title>Comments on: Susan Greenfield on bankers and computer games: badly thought out hypothesising</title>
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	<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/</link>
	<description>The truth about Patrick Holford, media nutritionist</description>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19503</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 May 2009 13:48:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19503</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks Matt - some good points.  There are just limits to how much one can cover in a (fairly quick) blog post...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Matt &#8211; some good points.  There are just limits to how much one can cover in a (fairly quick) blog post&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19441</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Matt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 16:17:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19441</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[It was a truly awful article and disappointing that Wired saw fit to print it.  As well as all of the points that you&#039;ve raised above, the article had a number of other flaws: 

1. She argues that it was recklessness that lead to the financial crisis. Apart from being an over-simplification, it&#039;s not at all clear that individual bankers were behaving recklessly from their own perspective.  The bonus schemes in place at the banks rewarded large gains, without providing adequate downside where losses were made.  It&#039;s hardly reckless (from the individual&#039;s perspective) to make high-risk investments where the upside is so high and the down-side is so low. 

2.  The underlying suggestion in the article is that games caused an increase in reckless behaviour. Even if a correlation could be shown between those who played computer games and those who are reckless, that doesn&#039;t show causation.  It could simply be the case that people with reckless tendancies are attracted to videogames. If this is the case, then the argument is reduced to an observation that reckless people may be attracted to both banking and to computer games. 

3.  The article reveals Susan&#039;s bias when she talks about individuals who are &quot;overexposed&quot; to computer games.  She doesn&#039;t give any suggestion as to what &quot;overexposed&quot; might mean. 

4. Again, she oversimplifies when stating that computer games only create short term incentives.  Certainly some MMOs create longer term incentives (albeit measured in perhaps weeks and months rather than years) with consequences that cannot simply be re-set on another playthrough.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was a truly awful article and disappointing that Wired saw fit to print it.  As well as all of the points that you&#8217;ve raised above, the article had a number of other flaws: </p>
<p>1. She argues that it was recklessness that lead to the financial crisis. Apart from being an over-simplification, it&#8217;s not at all clear that individual bankers were behaving recklessly from their own perspective.  The bonus schemes in place at the banks rewarded large gains, without providing adequate downside where losses were made.  It&#8217;s hardly reckless (from the individual&#8217;s perspective) to make high-risk investments where the upside is so high and the down-side is so low. </p>
<p>2.  The underlying suggestion in the article is that games caused an increase in reckless behaviour. Even if a correlation could be shown between those who played computer games and those who are reckless, that doesn&#8217;t show causation.  It could simply be the case that people with reckless tendancies are attracted to videogames. If this is the case, then the argument is reduced to an observation that reckless people may be attracted to both banking and to computer games. </p>
<p>3.  The article reveals Susan&#8217;s bias when she talks about individuals who are &#8220;overexposed&#8221; to computer games.  She doesn&#8217;t give any suggestion as to what &#8220;overexposed&#8221; might mean. </p>
<p>4. Again, she oversimplifies when stating that computer games only create short term incentives.  Certainly some MMOs create longer term incentives (albeit measured in perhaps weeks and months rather than years) with consequences that cannot simply be re-set on another playthrough.</p>
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		<title>By: Wednesday Round Up #63 &#171; Neuroanthropology</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19435</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wednesday Round Up #63 &#171; Neuroanthropology]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 12:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19435</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[[...] Holford, Susan Greenfield on Bankers and Computer Games: Badly Thought Out Hypothesising How wonderful – a dismantling of Greenfield and her latest essay, this time in [...]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Holford, Susan Greenfield on Bankers and Computer Games: Badly Thought Out Hypothesising How wonderful – a dismantling of Greenfield and her latest essay, this time in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Neuroskeptic</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19432</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neuroskeptic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 13 May 2009 10:57:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19432</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Agreed - she&#039;s clearly not fit to head the RI and what she&#039;s doing is dragging into disrepute.

My point though is that were she an opinion columnist rather than the head of the RI no-one would bat an eyelid. Which is an indictment of (most) opinion-columnists.

I think we&#039;ve found here a new career path.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Agreed &#8211; she&#8217;s clearly not fit to head the RI and what she&#8217;s doing is dragging into disrepute.</p>
<p>My point though is that were she an opinion columnist rather than the head of the RI no-one would bat an eyelid. Which is an indictment of (most) opinion-columnists.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;ve found here a new career path.</p>
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		<title>By: Anthony</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19425</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Anthony]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 23:14:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19425</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[She is absolutely appalling. It seems that to be a media friendly scientist, you have to be willing to come out with this sort of pap.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She is absolutely appalling. It seems that to be a media friendly scientist, you have to be willing to come out with this sort of pap.</p>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19423</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 22:56:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19423</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure - but Greenfield is an eminent academic, director of the RI, etc: one would have therefore hoped that her commentary would have been better-substantiated.  This commentary is also differentiated from typical political commentary by the added neuro-scienciness: which does, I think, make it more than typically problematic.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure &#8211; but Greenfield is an eminent academic, director of the RI, etc: one would have therefore hoped that her commentary would have been better-substantiated.  This commentary is also differentiated from typical political commentary by the added neuro-scienciness: which does, I think, make it more than typically problematic.</p>
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		<title>By: jonhw</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19422</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jonhw]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 22:53:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19422</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sure there must be a column in that for someone :)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sure there must be a column in that for someone :)</p>
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		<title>By: Neuroskeptic</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19421</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Neuroskeptic]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 21:58:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19421</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[She&#039;s asserting a somewhat-plausible but entirely post hoc hypothesis about the causal relationship between two things, both of which may not even exist (&quot;screen culture&quot; - dubious, &quot;banker&#039;s recklessness&quot;, very dubious too, my understanding is that the individual bankers were acting out of rational albeit myopic self-interest in a perverse system).

But that&#039;s really no worse than a hundred other pundits. When someone claims that, oh I don&#039;t know, &quot;permissive parenting&quot; is causing &quot;the crime surge&quot;, say, that&#039;s exactly as bad.

Greenfield only seems especially silly because she&#039;s chosen to talk about a topic in which this kind of thing isn&#039;t usually done. When you look at it 99% of political comment is basically of this form.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>She&#8217;s asserting a somewhat-plausible but entirely post hoc hypothesis about the causal relationship between two things, both of which may not even exist (&#8220;screen culture&#8221; &#8211; dubious, &#8220;banker&#8217;s recklessness&#8221;, very dubious too, my understanding is that the individual bankers were acting out of rational albeit myopic self-interest in a perverse system).</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s really no worse than a hundred other pundits. When someone claims that, oh I don&#8217;t know, &#8220;permissive parenting&#8221; is causing &#8220;the crime surge&#8221;, say, that&#8217;s exactly as bad.</p>
<p>Greenfield only seems especially silly because she&#8217;s chosen to talk about a topic in which this kind of thing isn&#8217;t usually done. When you look at it 99% of political comment is basically of this form.</p>
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		<title>By: Claire</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19416</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Claire]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 16:39:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19416</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I recently had lunch with an American friend, now retired but who knows a bit about the financial world. I&#039;m ashamed to say we  indulged in a fair bit of reckless and most probably unconvincing hypothesising about the origins of the current global financial mayhem (we were in a pub...). In the context of lamenting her son-in-law&#039;s lack of financial acumen which has resulted in this couple being declared bankrupt, losing house in which daughter had sunk her sizeable savings etc (the guy was an analyst with a big-name financial outfit- halp!), I asked her if she had any opinions on how supposedly highly intelligent people had managed to wreak such economic harm through reckless lending. Her one-word answer (based, I suspect, on antipathy towards abovmentioned SIL) was: cocaine . Feckless pair that we are, we seem to have neglected to rush into print with our baseless speculation.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently had lunch with an American friend, now retired but who knows a bit about the financial world. I&#8217;m ashamed to say we  indulged in a fair bit of reckless and most probably unconvincing hypothesising about the origins of the current global financial mayhem (we were in a pub&#8230;). In the context of lamenting her son-in-law&#8217;s lack of financial acumen which has resulted in this couple being declared bankrupt, losing house in which daughter had sunk her sizeable savings etc (the guy was an analyst with a big-name financial outfit- halp!), I asked her if she had any opinions on how supposedly highly intelligent people had managed to wreak such economic harm through reckless lending. Her one-word answer (based, I suspect, on antipathy towards abovmentioned SIL) was: cocaine . Feckless pair that we are, we seem to have neglected to rush into print with our baseless speculation.</p>
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		<title>By: jdc325</title>
		<link>http://holfordwatch.info/2009/05/11/susan-greenfield-on-bankers-and-computer-games-wired/comment-page-1/#comment-19413</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[jdc325]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 14:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://holfordwatch.info/?p=4293#comment-19413</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yet another article where Greenfield freely speculates but fails to present  good evidence for her hunches. It&#039;s not that long ago that she did her &#039;Facebook rewires the brain&#039;/&#039;Computers may cause autism&#039; thing (I&#039;m paraphrasing here) in the Daily Fail. &lt;a href=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/fail-sg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Linky&lt;/a&gt;.

“Social networking websites are causing alarming changes in the brains of young users, an eminent scientist has warned. Sites such as Facebook, Twitter and Bebo are said to shorten attention spans, encourage instant gratification and make young people more self-centred.”

&quot;She pointed out that autistic people, who usually find it hard to communicate, were particularly comfortable using computers. ‘Of course, we do not know whether the current increase in autism is due more to increased awareness and diagnosis of autism, or whether it can – if there is a true increase – be in any way linked to an increased prevalence among people of spending time in screen relationships. Surely it is a point worth considering,’ she added.&quot;

[It&#039;s something I mentioned on my &lt;a href=&quot;http://tinyurl.com/jdc-fail&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;blog&lt;/a&gt;.]]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yet another article where Greenfield freely speculates but fails to present  good evidence for her hunches. It&#8217;s not that long ago that she did her &#8216;Facebook rewires the brain&#8217;/'Computers may cause autism&#8217; thing (I&#8217;m paraphrasing here) in the Daily Fail. <a href="http://tinyurl.com/fail-sg" rel="nofollow">Linky</a>.</p>
<p>“Social networking websites are causing alarming changes in the brains of young users, an eminent scientist has warned. Sites such as Facebook, Twitter and Bebo are said to shorten attention spans, encourage instant gratification and make young people more self-centred.”</p>
<p>&#8220;She pointed out that autistic people, who usually find it hard to communicate, were particularly comfortable using computers. ‘Of course, we do not know whether the current increase in autism is due more to increased awareness and diagnosis of autism, or whether it can – if there is a true increase – be in any way linked to an increased prevalence among people of spending time in screen relationships. Surely it is a point worth considering,’ she added.&#8221;</p>
<p>[It's something I mentioned on my <a href="http://tinyurl.com/jdc-fail" rel="nofollow">blog</a>.]</p>
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